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recently a contest was launched for

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those interested in making physics and

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or Consciousness explainer videos it's

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essentially the physics Consciousness

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version of three blue one Browns contest

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and Brilliant has come on board to divvy

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5000 USD equally among the top five the

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details are linked below if you'd like

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to submit your understanding or

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explanation of some ctmu concept or how

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bernardo's analytical idealism works

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then feel free Chris Langan is an

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autodidact who has the highest reported

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IQ in America and he's conceived of an

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extremely inventive Theory of Everything

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based in language or meta language and

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logic or metallogic called the cognitive

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theoretic model of the universe or the

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ctmu for short the link to Chris's ctmu

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YouTube channel as well as other links

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are in the description Bernardo Castro

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is the executive director of the

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Essentia Foundation bernardo's one of

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the most cogent champions of

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metaphysical idealism that is the notion

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that reality is essentially mental and

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he puts this forward with analytical

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Precision the link to bring bernardo's

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YouTube page and other links are in the

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description as well in this podcast

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Bernardo and Christ both expound on

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their views on Consciousness on

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computation and whether materialism or

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idealism is most coherent my name is

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Kurt J mungle I'm a torontonian

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filmmaker with the background in

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mathematical physics dedicated to the

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explication of the variegated terrains

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of theories of everything that is

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primarily from a physics perspective but

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as well as exploring the possible

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connection Consciousness has to the

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fundamental laws of nature provided

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these laws exist at all and are knowable

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to us if you'd like to hear more

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podcasts like these then do consider

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going to patreon.com

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and supporting with whatever you can as

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support from the patrons and the

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sponsors are the only reason I'm able to

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do this full time so thank you and now

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thanks to the sponsors the first of

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which is brilliant Brilliance is a place

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to learn math science and engineering

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through bite-sized Interactive Learning

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experiences if you're interested in

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theories of everything from a physics

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perspective then you've likely heard of

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Constructor Theory which is a toe that's

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heavily predicated in information Theory

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so I decided to take Brilliance course

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on random variable distributions and

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knowledge uncertainty and after taking

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that course I can finally see why the

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formula for entropy is defined the way

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that it is it's actually an extremely

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natural formula you can also learn group

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theory if you're interested in the

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standard model then you'll need to know

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what U1 processed U2 cross s23 is visit

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brilliant.org toe to get 20 off the

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annual subscription I recommend that you

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don't stop before four lessons keep

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pushing until you've done at least four

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and I think you'll be greatly surprised

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at the ease at which you can now

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comprehend subjects you previously had a

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difficult time grocking the second

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sponsor is nordvpn and the third is

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manscaped you'll be hearing much more

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about them later they're both joining us

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for the first time on tow so I'm

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extremely grateful to them thank you and

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enjoy this Theo location with Bernardo

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Castro and Chris Langan nice to meet you

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Chris nice to meet you too Bernardo

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plenty of people are excited for this by

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the way this I think has the most

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upvotes slash comments of any pairing of

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any field location so if you have a

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fraction of the amount of excitement as

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I have I'll I'm super happy about that

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people are probably when they watch this

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live people are like oh my gosh this I

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can't believe this is happening Chris

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Langan and Bernardo Castro

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okay

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well

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why don't we start just so you know

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we'll talk about metaphysics

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Consciousness and computation those are

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the general themes for today we'll start

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with the substrate independence of

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Consciousness quote unquote so

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Lambda I'm sure you've heard of this

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computer or this algorithm or this AI

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called Lambda some people claim it's

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indeed conscious

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why or why not and we'll start with you

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Bernardo if you don't mind

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uh certainly not

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um when we when we say something is

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conscious uh what we normally mean is

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that that something has private

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conscious in their life that is separate

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from yours from mine and from the rest

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of nature so to be conscious is to have

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private experience private phenomenality

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another way to put it and I think we

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have absolutely no reason to think that

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a silicon mechanism has private inner

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life of its own it is it in

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Consciousness absolutely everything is

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in Consciousness everything begins

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unfolds and ends in in a field of

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subjectivity that underlies all nature

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in my view so Lambda is in Consciousness

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that doesn't mean that it is conscious

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in and of itself I think what nature is

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telling us empirically all the time is

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that private conscious in their life

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correlates with well life metabolism

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protein folding DNA transcription and

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ATP burning all that good stuff this is

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a far from trivial process metabolism it

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uniquely separates biology from

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everything else in the universe and it

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ties all biology together despite the

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tremendous differences between say a an

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amoeba run a swimming in my toilet and

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me we are completely different yet if

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you look down a microscope to the

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details of metabolism we are identical

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we all do protein folding ATP burning

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transcription and all that stuff so

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nature is screaming to us that what

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private conscious inner life looks like

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is warm moist biology metabolism

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and Lambda is a silicon computer now can

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it emulate or simulate a human cognitive

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processing very well well I have little

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doubt that it does but the simulation of

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a phenomenon is not the phenomenon I

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mean I can simulate kidney function on

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my computer accurately down to the

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molecular level and yet my computer will

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not pee on my desk because a simulation

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of kidney function is not kidney

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function so Lambda is simulating human

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intelligence that doesn't mean that it

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is conscious because a simulation is not

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the thing simulated it's a primary

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logical mistake that unfortunately has

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been rendered seemingly plausible by our

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mad culture because it's being bombarded

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on you all the time via the media and

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Hollywood movies and Netflix series that

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it is plausible for silicon machines to

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have private conscious in their life of

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of their own even though we have

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absolutely zero rational and empirical

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reason to think that that's the case

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what's your opinion on the same question

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if you want I can reread the question

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um uh read the question again

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I agree with everything the product said

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but go ahead and read it again for me

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please so whether we basically want to

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know whether or not Lambda is indeed

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conscious why or why not are you talking

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about the Lambda calculus of the program

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recently in the news there is this AI

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from Google which was much like a

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like a talk like a bot a talk bot yeah

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I'll probably explain it incorrectly so

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Bernardo do you mind explaining what

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them does that's it's a chat bot that's

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that's what it is yeah and it probably

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will pass the Turing test well for what

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that means I mean as Bernardo pointed

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out that your test isn't the end-all

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be-all you've still got a machine

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simulator even if it stimulates very

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very well and convinces you that it's

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human nevertheless it is not human so

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basically you're asking well the Lambda

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calculus is a construct it's a it's a

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computer program it's a mathematical

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construct which exists in something that

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could be likened to the syntax the

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accepting syntax of something in

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computation Theory that's called

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acceptor you've got acceptors and

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processors they transduce information

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they accept input and output from the

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external world then they process it

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internally so we're talking about

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Consciousness being the internal phase

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of that process

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and the idea is the

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metaphysics as far as metaphysics is

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concerned

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opinion

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metaphysics is about putting the metal

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side of your existence in contact with

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the physical side we understand the

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physical side quite well thanks to the

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empirical sciences and the metal side uh

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we don't have such a firm grasp

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um Kant you know came up and started

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talking about mental categories in terms

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of which we perceive phenomenal reality

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and uh that gives us a clue as to what

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we're talking about here we are talking

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about something very much like accepting

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syntax with a computational acceptable

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okay the idea of putting those two

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things together requires something

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called all we have to do is we

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it's a very simple operation we we

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basically say that cognition is akin to

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a cognitive identity language it allows

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us to identify things so it's a language

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then we say the physical universe is a

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manifold

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things are happening the idea then is to

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connect these two things that takes a

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kind of metal language that spans both

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the both of these two object languages

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that we have one of which deals with

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values coordinate systems and things

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like that that's the the manifold and

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then you've got the other side which is

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qualitative more qualitative more

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attribute right that's the mental side

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so we're uniting those two things in one

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metaphormal language that has to be

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quantized in a certain way

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and those identity operators that I was

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just talking about that are a little bit

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like computational acceptors those are

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the quantum

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okay they're active science

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if you look at the linguistic aspect of

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what I'm talking about there active

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science in the language but they are

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also the points of the manifold or the

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universe that contains the content to

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which you refer with the language

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call me

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this is a mathematical this is a this is

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something that you know I did 30 years

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ago and I more or less had my own way of

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talking about it let me know if I'm uh

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losing it sure so I have a quick

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question and then Bernardo please jump

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in if you're unsure or you have

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clarifying questions so you said that

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there's a mental world and then there's

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something like the physical world which

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you said is like a manifold well they're

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both seeing a metaphormally coupled you

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can't if you take a state

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it consists of attributes and values for

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the attributes you can't take those two

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things apart

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what I'm saying is they're metaphormally

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00:10:43,670 --> 00:10:41,040
coupled all right you can you can deal

279
00:10:45,829 --> 00:10:43,680
with pure attributes but but you can't

280
00:10:48,889 --> 00:10:45,839
do that without instances or at any rate

281
00:10:50,449 --> 00:10:48,899
a cognitive identity operator to

282
00:10:52,790 --> 00:10:50,459
actually perform the metal functions

283
00:10:55,190 --> 00:10:52,800
involved right

284
00:10:57,710 --> 00:10:55,200
so there's no way and as far as the

285
00:11:00,290 --> 00:10:57,720
values are concerned you take a an

286
00:11:03,530 --> 00:11:00,300
object without attributes that's an

287
00:11:04,970 --> 00:11:03,540
oxymoron okay there is no object that is

288
00:11:06,829 --> 00:11:04,980
totally without attributes you've pinned

289
00:11:07,970 --> 00:11:06,839
an attribute on it by calling it an

290
00:11:10,130 --> 00:11:07,980
object

291
00:11:11,750 --> 00:11:10,140
okay so you can't take those two things

292
00:11:13,550 --> 00:11:11,760
apart there's simply no way to do it so

293
00:11:16,730 --> 00:11:13,560
this dualism between the metal and

294
00:11:19,069 --> 00:11:16,740
physical sides of reality and I say is

295
00:11:20,509 --> 00:11:19,079
nonsense it takes this metaformal

296
00:11:22,509 --> 00:11:20,519
approach in this metaphorical metal

297
00:11:24,170 --> 00:11:22,519
elements that I'm talking

298
00:11:25,310 --> 00:11:24,180
Bernardo do you have any thoughts on

299
00:11:27,530 --> 00:11:25,320
that

300
00:11:30,290 --> 00:11:27,540
or questions increase jumped into

301
00:11:32,090 --> 00:11:30,300
probably more details of his theory

302
00:11:33,470 --> 00:11:32,100
which I'm not acquainted with so if I

303
00:11:34,130 --> 00:11:33,480
start asking questions now you'll

304
00:11:36,350 --> 00:11:34,140
probably

305
00:11:38,210 --> 00:11:36,360
speak for the next two hours just for me

306
00:11:40,730 --> 00:11:38,220
to understand something I should have

307
00:11:43,370 --> 00:11:40,740
understood by reading a paper which I

308
00:11:46,250 --> 00:11:43,380
haven't read so I'm not going to tax you

309
00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:46,260
with this uh Chris yeah well what I was

310
00:11:51,170 --> 00:11:48,480
trying to to answer more or less was the

311
00:11:53,449 --> 00:11:51,180
idea of what metaphysics is and how

312
00:11:54,889 --> 00:11:53,459
Consciousness relates to metaphysics

313
00:11:56,569 --> 00:11:54,899
okay so what I'm saying is that

314
00:11:58,370 --> 00:11:56,579
metaphysics has to be this metaphormal

315
00:12:02,629 --> 00:11:58,380
metal language and Consciousness relates

316
00:12:06,069 --> 00:12:02,639
to it as a distributed property thereof

317
00:12:08,569 --> 00:12:06,079
that that would be your your particular

318
00:12:10,129 --> 00:12:08,579
usage of the word metaphysics or in

319
00:12:13,490 --> 00:12:10,139
metaphysics is a word that has been used

320
00:12:15,949 --> 00:12:13,500
since you know the pre-socratic so there

321
00:12:18,590 --> 00:12:15,959
is there is a sort of a

322
00:12:20,930 --> 00:12:18,600
common common meaning for the word in

323
00:12:23,750 --> 00:12:20,940
philosophy metaphysics that which stands

324
00:12:25,610 --> 00:12:23,760
behind physics or the essence or the

325
00:12:28,250 --> 00:12:25,620
beingness of things as opposed to

326
00:12:30,590 --> 00:12:28,260
appearances and behavior precisely I'm

327
00:12:32,690 --> 00:12:30,600
saying that has to take the form of a

328
00:12:35,389 --> 00:12:32,700
metaphormal metal language

329
00:12:37,490 --> 00:12:35,399
of some metal and physical sides of

330
00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:37,500
reality in other words span between both

331
00:12:40,610 --> 00:12:38,639
of those things building a bridge

332
00:12:42,590 --> 00:12:40,620
between them that's the purpose of

333
00:12:44,509 --> 00:12:42,600
metaphysics and I understand that many

334
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:44,519
different people have have defined it in

335
00:12:48,170 --> 00:12:46,800
many different ways and the long and

336
00:12:49,910 --> 00:12:48,180
short of it is although I'm you know

337
00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:49,920
respect you know people having their own

338
00:12:53,690 --> 00:12:51,360
ideas about things I don't find that

339
00:12:55,250 --> 00:12:53,700
especially useful you can go and look at

340
00:12:57,530 --> 00:12:55,260
everybody's definition and not come out

341
00:13:01,250 --> 00:12:57,540
with anything very stable that you can

342
00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:01,260
work with so I settled on a mathematical

343
00:13:04,970 --> 00:13:03,720
structure that I can work with to make

344
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:04,980
sense of these Concepts these

345
00:13:12,110 --> 00:13:10,190
okay so how about we talk about

346
00:13:15,530 --> 00:13:12,120
computation so what does computation

347
00:13:17,329 --> 00:13:15,540
mean what is reality's relationship to

348
00:13:19,310 --> 00:13:17,339
computation obviously that depends on

349
00:13:20,569 --> 00:13:19,320
one's definition of reality let me tell

350
00:13:23,449 --> 00:13:20,579
you the reason why I'm asking this

351
00:13:25,310 --> 00:13:23,459
question it's because some people think

352
00:13:27,710 --> 00:13:25,320
that our

353
00:13:29,449 --> 00:13:27,720
conscious experiences generated by an

354
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:29,459
algorithmic process and then some people

355
00:13:33,889 --> 00:13:31,440
don't think that so for example Penrose

356
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:33,899
famously and secondly some people think

357
00:13:39,650 --> 00:13:36,240
reality is understood as

358
00:13:42,110 --> 00:13:39,660
or is equivalent to computation so

359
00:13:43,550 --> 00:13:42,120
Wolfram for example again the question

360
00:13:49,910 --> 00:13:43,560
is

361
00:13:52,090 --> 00:13:49,920
relationship to reality Bernardo

362
00:13:55,550 --> 00:13:52,100
in its most generic definition

363
00:13:58,129 --> 00:13:55,560
computation just means changes of state

364
00:14:00,170 --> 00:13:58,139
When Future State states depend on

365
00:14:02,389 --> 00:14:00,180
previous States then you have a

366
00:14:05,150 --> 00:14:02,399
computation it's the function by means

367
00:14:08,389 --> 00:14:05,160
of which you create future States based

368
00:14:11,689 --> 00:14:08,399
on past States that's the most generic

369
00:14:13,509 --> 00:14:11,699
possible definition of computation some

370
00:14:17,090 --> 00:14:13,519
of the other things you brought up

371
00:14:20,509 --> 00:14:17,100
attach more you know qualifications to

372
00:14:23,329 --> 00:14:20,519
the word computation uh Wolfram

373
00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:23,339
um considers the laws of physics to be

374
00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:25,800
emergent from cellular automata like

375
00:14:31,129 --> 00:14:28,320
computation in other words local

376
00:14:32,689 --> 00:14:31,139
computations based on Simple Rules so

377
00:14:35,269 --> 00:14:32,699
now you're not saying only computation

378
00:14:37,790 --> 00:14:35,279
now you're specifying more what kind of

379
00:14:40,970 --> 00:14:37,800
computation is involved then you have

380
00:14:42,829 --> 00:14:40,980
digital physics in which the idea is

381
00:14:46,449 --> 00:14:42,839
that the laws of physics should be

382
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:46,459
reducible to digital computations

383
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:48,959
so you're specifying what kind of

384
00:14:53,210 --> 00:14:51,360
computation there are analog analog

385
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:53,220
there has been analog computers in our

386
00:14:57,170 --> 00:14:55,199
history and less than 100 years ago so

387
00:15:00,290 --> 00:14:57,180
computer education is not only digital

388
00:15:02,090 --> 00:15:00,300
so most people when they say well nature

389
00:15:03,650 --> 00:15:02,100
is a computer usually they mean

390
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:03,660
something more than to just say

391
00:15:08,810 --> 00:15:06,240
computations happen because yes

392
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:08,820
computations happen the state of the

393
00:15:14,829 --> 00:15:12,240
universe is changing so it's Computing

394
00:15:17,949 --> 00:15:14,839
by definition there is nothing

395
00:15:21,949 --> 00:15:17,959
metaphysically polemic or or or

396
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:21,959
complicated about it it is when you add

397
00:15:25,790 --> 00:15:24,000
more qualifications to what you mean

398
00:15:28,610 --> 00:15:25,800
that's where it gets tricky when you say

399
00:15:32,090 --> 00:15:28,620
for instance that Consciousness does not

400
00:15:34,430 --> 00:15:32,100
have a non-tick reality of its own but

401
00:15:36,530 --> 00:15:34,440
is the result of a computation and

402
00:15:39,170 --> 00:15:36,540
therefore Epi phenomenon in some sense

403
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:39,180
now you're seeing more than just that

404
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:41,040
the Universe computes now you're saying

405
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:42,800
not only does the universe compute

406
00:15:47,090 --> 00:15:45,120
sometimes its structures its

407
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:47,100
computations in such a way that it

408
00:15:51,230 --> 00:15:49,199
produces an app phenomenal results that

409
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:51,240
we know as Consciousness now you're

410
00:15:58,009 --> 00:15:54,000
saying something distinct and absolutely

411
00:16:01,970 --> 00:15:58,019
wrong and internally contradictory and

412
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:01,980
incoherent and explanatory powerless but

413
00:16:08,569 --> 00:16:04,800
at least you were saying something Ben

414
00:16:10,490 --> 00:16:08,579
Rosa would say that um uh in an

415
00:16:13,249 --> 00:16:10,500
orchestrated reduction together with the

416
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:13,259
hammeroff they would say that it's one

417
00:16:17,210 --> 00:16:15,600
Mass crosses a certain threshold that

418
00:16:19,550 --> 00:16:17,220
you have collapsed and the moment of

419
00:16:21,889 --> 00:16:19,560
collapse is an experience so they're

420
00:16:23,810 --> 00:16:21,899
saying a lot more than to just say the

421
00:16:26,150 --> 00:16:23,820
Universe computes

422
00:16:28,370 --> 00:16:26,160
um so if you stick to the general thing

423
00:16:30,889 --> 00:16:28,380
the Universe computes I would say of

424
00:16:33,650 --> 00:16:30,899
course because computational computation

425
00:16:37,370 --> 00:16:33,660
generically speaking just means that

426
00:16:40,129 --> 00:16:37,380
there are State transitions and future

427
00:16:41,749 --> 00:16:40,139
states are based on prior states which

428
00:16:43,310 --> 00:16:41,759
we know empirically is what's happening

429
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:43,320
in the universe the universe doesn't

430
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:46,079
begin at every moment independently of

431
00:16:50,090 --> 00:16:48,240
what the state was before or as it would

432
00:16:52,370 --> 00:16:50,100
be completely random and it's not it's

433
00:16:54,290 --> 00:16:52,380
predictable so yes there are

434
00:16:56,210 --> 00:16:54,300
computations

435
00:16:58,249 --> 00:16:56,220
um but that's a very generic and

436
00:17:01,009 --> 00:16:58,259
non-polemical thing to say

437
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:01,019
Chris again so the question is

438
00:17:04,970 --> 00:17:03,120
what is computation and what's reality's

439
00:17:06,590 --> 00:17:04,980
relationship to computation and again

440
00:17:08,329 --> 00:17:06,600
what's behind the question is some

441
00:17:11,630 --> 00:17:08,339
people think that the mind has to be

442
00:17:13,250 --> 00:17:11,640
non-algorithmic like Penrose and also

443
00:17:15,470 --> 00:17:13,260
some people right and then some people

444
00:17:19,549 --> 00:17:15,480
think that reality itself is algorithmic

445
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:22,010
okay uh the problem with uh you know

446
00:17:26,689 --> 00:17:23,760
computations with a turing machine does

447
00:17:28,970 --> 00:17:26,699
a turing machine can do its computations

448
00:17:30,529 --> 00:17:28,980
in one of two ways to go to you know

449
00:17:32,270 --> 00:17:30,539
recursive process and it can either do

450
00:17:33,950 --> 00:17:32,280
things deterministically like Bernardo

451
00:17:35,690 --> 00:17:33,960
was talking about something in the past

452
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:35,700
happens then you've got causal efficacy

453
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:37,440
within the machine and then something

454
00:17:40,010 --> 00:17:38,640
else happens or it can do it

455
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:40,020
non-deterministically which means that

456
00:17:43,850 --> 00:17:42,240
it's making random choices in either

457
00:17:45,529 --> 00:17:43,860
case those don't describe Consciousness

458
00:17:47,930 --> 00:17:45,539
because those random

459
00:17:50,210 --> 00:17:47,940
junctures those they're disconnects

460
00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:50,220
Consciousness is something that is a we

461
00:17:54,169 --> 00:17:51,600
understand it as a pretty much

462
00:17:55,610 --> 00:17:54,179
continuous process all right whereas

463
00:17:57,650 --> 00:17:55,620
there's a if you if you take

464
00:17:59,450 --> 00:17:57,660
non-deterministic combination or

465
00:18:01,970 --> 00:17:59,460
computation there is this disconnect

466
00:18:04,370 --> 00:18:01,980
there right whereas if it's

467
00:18:06,770 --> 00:18:04,380
deterministic then cognitive then then

468
00:18:09,529 --> 00:18:06,780
Consciousness is completely

469
00:18:11,690 --> 00:18:09,539
truth okay in other words a

470
00:18:13,310 --> 00:18:11,700
deterministic process gives you no room

471
00:18:15,409 --> 00:18:13,320
for free will doesn't allow you to make

472
00:18:19,130 --> 00:18:15,419
choices doesn't allow you to realize

473
00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:19,140
your uh your will as shovana put it you

474
00:18:23,750 --> 00:18:21,600
see what I mean so these are that's

475
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:23,760
that's the main limitation of

476
00:18:27,890 --> 00:18:25,200
computation Theory the fact that you've

477
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:27,900
got this pseudo-causal dichotomy between

478
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:30,480
determinacy and randomness

479
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:32,400
now there's a third way to look at

480
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:33,440
things and that is called

481
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:35,520
self-deterpacing right and that is what

482
00:18:40,789 --> 00:18:38,160
occurs in the metaformal system which is

483
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:40,799
why instead of using computation to

484
00:18:44,090 --> 00:18:42,240
model this whole thing I use something

485
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:44,100
called proto-computation

486
00:18:49,310 --> 00:18:46,799
is you know Quantum turing machine is a

487
00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:49,320
little bit like a like a classical

488
00:18:54,590 --> 00:18:51,840
turing machine still got the tape it's

489
00:18:56,510 --> 00:18:54,600
still got the uh the processor you know

490
00:18:58,730 --> 00:18:56,520
it's that tape by the way that's like a

491
00:19:02,330 --> 00:18:58,740
typographical array and formal systems

492
00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:02,340
and this is once again inadequate the

493
00:19:06,049 --> 00:19:04,559
reality is is generative it actually has

494
00:19:08,690 --> 00:19:06,059
a way of putting itself together from

495
00:19:10,610 --> 00:19:08,700
scratch originate it originates things

496
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:10,620
rather than causing them

497
00:19:15,110 --> 00:19:12,960
so that would be my answer to the

498
00:19:18,770 --> 00:19:15,120
shortfalls of computation and modeling

499
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:18,780
consciousness if I if I can just comment

500
00:19:20,510 --> 00:19:19,919
on something

501
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:20,520
um

502
00:19:24,049 --> 00:19:22,320
I didn't

503
00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:24,059
when I said the universe certainly

504
00:19:28,370 --> 00:19:26,640
computes I didn't mean to restrict it to

505
00:19:30,470 --> 00:19:28,380
deterministic computation I know that

506
00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:30,480
there is indeterministic or

507
00:19:34,610 --> 00:19:32,400
non-deterministic computation quantum

508
00:19:38,270 --> 00:19:34,620
computers are not deterministic and yet

509
00:19:40,430 --> 00:19:38,280
they produce uh precise solutions to

510
00:19:41,810 --> 00:19:40,440
very complicated problems solutions that

511
00:19:43,010 --> 00:19:41,820
you can test and see while they are

512
00:19:45,710 --> 00:19:43,020
really solutions they do so

513
00:19:47,090 --> 00:19:45,720
mechanistically right

514
00:19:49,850 --> 00:19:47,100
it

515
00:19:52,610 --> 00:19:49,860
well there has to be structure to

516
00:19:54,350 --> 00:19:52,620
computation we may call that mechanistic

517
00:19:55,610 --> 00:19:54,360
if we want

518
00:19:58,250 --> 00:19:55,620
um but there has to be structure

519
00:19:59,630 --> 00:19:58,260
otherwise it's just Randomness

520
00:20:01,610 --> 00:19:59,640
um the universe doesn't seem to be

521
00:20:03,950 --> 00:20:01,620
completely random there is order and

522
00:20:05,690 --> 00:20:03,960
there are regularities in nature we

523
00:20:07,750 --> 00:20:05,700
model them in the form that we call the

524
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:07,760
laws of physics so there is at least

525
00:20:13,610 --> 00:20:11,760
emergent order even if it's not there

526
00:20:15,890 --> 00:20:13,620
from the beginning which I think is a

527
00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:15,900
tough case to make but I'm I'm sensitive

528
00:20:20,890 --> 00:20:18,240
to the possibility there is at least

529
00:20:24,370 --> 00:20:20,900
emergent order

530
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:24,380
and even with a fundamentally

531
00:20:28,010 --> 00:20:26,400
non-deterministic substrate at the

532
00:20:31,310 --> 00:20:28,020
bottom level you can still perform

533
00:20:34,610 --> 00:20:31,320
meaningful computations by playing with

534
00:20:37,730 --> 00:20:34,620
this the emergent statistical rules like

535
00:20:40,669 --> 00:20:37,740
quantum physics is indeterministic on a

536
00:20:43,850 --> 00:20:40,679
case-by-case basis but because of the

537
00:20:46,490 --> 00:20:43,860
law of large numbers the statistics are

538
00:20:48,049 --> 00:20:46,500
very nicely predictable and that's what

539
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:48,059
Quantum compute series will leverage

540
00:20:52,850 --> 00:20:50,400
they will leverage that emerging order

541
00:20:55,310 --> 00:20:52,860
that comes with the law of large and

542
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:55,320
large numbers and produce very precise

543
00:21:00,289 --> 00:20:57,840
and accurate solutions to problems so

544
00:21:02,770 --> 00:21:00,299
computations can be meaningful

545
00:21:05,649 --> 00:21:02,780
and computations and

546
00:21:08,210 --> 00:21:05,659
non-deterministic

547
00:21:10,130 --> 00:21:08,220
probability Theory you can't get the

548
00:21:11,690 --> 00:21:10,140
randomness out of it you take all the

549
00:21:13,610 --> 00:21:11,700
randomness out of probability Theory and

550
00:21:15,590 --> 00:21:13,620
it ceases to be a probability Theory

551
00:21:17,870 --> 00:21:15,600
then it becomes a classical mechanistic

552
00:21:19,970 --> 00:21:17,880
system right in order to accommodate

553
00:21:22,010 --> 00:21:19,980
that we change some classical mechanics

554
00:21:23,450 --> 00:21:22,020
to Quantum Mechanics we need something

555
00:21:25,430 --> 00:21:23,460
more than that something that is

556
00:21:27,230 --> 00:21:25,440
pre-real with John Wheeler called

557
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:27,240
pre-geometry we need something that

558
00:21:31,490 --> 00:21:29,520
actually precedes mechanisms that

559
00:21:35,029 --> 00:21:31,500
precedes computational that even

560
00:21:37,190 --> 00:21:35,039
precedes cognition and that is what I

561
00:21:39,470 --> 00:21:37,200
refer to as with Chopin I referred to as

562
00:21:42,049 --> 00:21:39,480
well what I refer to as Telesis

563
00:21:43,850 --> 00:21:42,059
this is we would have this underlying

564
00:21:46,669 --> 00:21:43,860
kind of Prima cax

565
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:46,679
right which is teleodynamics which is

566
00:21:51,169 --> 00:21:49,200
what this metaphorical language Works in

567
00:21:53,810 --> 00:21:51,179
terms

568
00:21:55,970 --> 00:21:53,820
schopenhauer he

569
00:21:57,950 --> 00:21:55,980
could make a case that he

570
00:21:59,690 --> 00:21:57,960
he was against determinism or you could

571
00:22:01,789 --> 00:21:59,700
make a case that he was a complete

572
00:22:03,470 --> 00:22:01,799
determinist I'm with the Atlanta Camp I

573
00:22:05,950 --> 00:22:03,480
think schopenhauer was a total

574
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:05,960
determinist he believed in determinism

575
00:22:11,930 --> 00:22:09,840
he his famous statement that yeah you

576
00:22:14,570 --> 00:22:11,940
can act according to your will but you

577
00:22:17,330 --> 00:22:14,580
cannot will what you will in other words

578
00:22:19,610 --> 00:22:17,340
what you will is already determined so

579
00:22:21,890 --> 00:22:19,620
that you can follow your choices doesn't

580
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:21,900
mean that there is no determinism

581
00:22:27,409 --> 00:22:25,200
because you're you're willing uh is

582
00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:27,419
already determined right what I was

583
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:28,799
referring is the you know the title of

584
00:22:32,510 --> 00:22:30,240
this Magnum office the word this will

585
00:22:34,730 --> 00:22:32,520
and representation basically the will

586
00:22:37,010 --> 00:22:34,740
has to somehow proceed the

587
00:22:39,409 --> 00:22:37,020
representation or is totally useless and

588
00:22:41,210 --> 00:22:39,419
trivial okay I don't think that that

589
00:22:43,010 --> 00:22:41,220
Chopin hour was saying something trivia

590
00:22:45,470 --> 00:22:43,020
I think that he actually felt that the

591
00:22:47,570 --> 00:22:45,480
will had something to do you know with

592
00:22:51,490 --> 00:22:47,580
reality Above and Beyond Simple

593
00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:54,830
of the world for schopenhauer that's

594
00:22:58,370 --> 00:22:56,640
correct no but how couldn't be

595
00:23:00,169 --> 00:22:58,380
deterministic how can it be

596
00:23:01,370 --> 00:23:00,179
deterministic without idea or

597
00:23:04,250 --> 00:23:01,380
representation

598
00:23:05,450 --> 00:23:04,260
if the flow and movements and dynamics

599
00:23:10,730 --> 00:23:05,460
of the wheel

600
00:23:13,789 --> 00:23:10,740
fits with describable patterns then it's

601
00:23:16,250 --> 00:23:13,799
not free actually I like to make the

602
00:23:19,490 --> 00:23:16,260
case that there is no semantic space

603
00:23:21,770 --> 00:23:19,500
between determinism and and total

604
00:23:23,390 --> 00:23:21,780
Randomness without structure and we try

605
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:23,400
to fit Free Will somewhere in between

606
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:25,679
but I think it's incoherent so for

607
00:23:30,409 --> 00:23:27,840
schopenhauer the essence of the world is

608
00:23:32,270 --> 00:23:30,419
will the essence of us is a will

609
00:23:34,190 --> 00:23:32,280
everything is a will and by the way

610
00:23:35,930 --> 00:23:34,200
there is only one wheel the one eye of

611
00:23:39,070 --> 00:23:35,940
the world that looks out from Every

612
00:23:42,830 --> 00:23:39,080
Creature as he he wrote it

613
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:42,840
but that will the patterns of behavior

614
00:23:48,529 --> 00:23:44,640
of that will

615
00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:48,539
are archetypal he he even made a

616
00:23:55,250 --> 00:23:51,840
comparison to Plato's ideal forms which

617
00:23:58,730 --> 00:23:55,260
was his way to say the will is not

618
00:24:01,370 --> 00:23:58,740
um it's not arbitrary it's not random it

619
00:24:03,529 --> 00:24:01,380
fits according to certain templates uh

620
00:24:05,690 --> 00:24:03,539
that he and then in the second edition

621
00:24:07,850 --> 00:24:05,700
of the world as wheel and representation

622
00:24:10,130 --> 00:24:07,860
he added something to say well I

623
00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:10,140
actually misrepresented Plato and then

624
00:24:14,570 --> 00:24:12,000
he tried to correct that but he still

625
00:24:17,390 --> 00:24:14,580
insisted on the main point which is the

626
00:24:19,850 --> 00:24:17,400
will unfolds according to predictable

627
00:24:22,570 --> 00:24:19,860
templates and and in that sense the

628
00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:22,580
unfolding of the will is not random or

629
00:24:28,250 --> 00:24:26,640
well in the way I interpret what what

630
00:24:30,529 --> 00:24:28,260
Shook and I was saying I know you're an

631
00:24:32,330 --> 00:24:30,539
expert on Sherman but the way I

632
00:24:34,909 --> 00:24:32,340
interpret what he was saying was

633
00:24:36,590 --> 00:24:34,919
basically there's a combination of Will

634
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:36,600
and representation and it's the

635
00:24:39,890 --> 00:24:38,400
combination that's important so that's

636
00:24:41,630 --> 00:24:39,900
what I mean by when I use the term

637
00:24:45,049 --> 00:24:41,640
metaphor I mean you're putting those two

638
00:24:46,970 --> 00:24:45,059
things together right so but there there

639
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:46,980
is something else there is a higher form

640
00:24:51,649 --> 00:24:49,679
of determinacy I call it medicalization

641
00:24:53,510 --> 00:24:51,659
sometimes that actually is determining

642
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:53,520
what happens it's not just the

643
00:24:57,970 --> 00:24:55,440
representation it's not just the will

644
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:57,980
it's the two things intent

645
00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:01,200
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646
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662
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664
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668
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669
00:25:57,769 --> 00:25:55,380
in the description and the comments

670
00:26:00,830 --> 00:25:57,779
what's meant by the word representation

671
00:26:03,470 --> 00:26:00,840
so for schopenhauer and the wheel is the

672
00:26:06,350 --> 00:26:03,480
Inner Essence of everything it's what

673
00:26:08,330 --> 00:26:06,360
really exists he com he equates that to

674
00:26:10,490 --> 00:26:08,340
Count's numina

675
00:26:13,130 --> 00:26:10,500
um the collection of numenomes numenon

676
00:26:14,510 --> 00:26:13,140
that forms existence that forms the

677
00:26:17,210 --> 00:26:14,520
Universe

678
00:26:20,210 --> 00:26:17,220
um and the representation is just the

679
00:26:21,169 --> 00:26:20,220
outside appearance of the will if I can

680
00:26:23,810 --> 00:26:21,179
quote him

681
00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:23,820
the representation is how the will

682
00:26:29,570 --> 00:26:26,400
presents itself can you give me an

683
00:26:35,870 --> 00:26:33,470
um combustion presents itself as flames

684
00:26:39,409 --> 00:26:35,880
combustion is the thing in itself an

685
00:26:42,409 --> 00:26:39,419
oxidation process that releases energy

686
00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:42,419
forms ions leading to a plasma and what

687
00:26:47,330 --> 00:26:44,279
we call Flames is how it looks like it's

688
00:26:50,930 --> 00:26:47,340
what combustion looks like so for

689
00:26:53,029 --> 00:26:50,940
schopenhauer all there is is Will in

690
00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:53,039
other words endogenous conscious states

691
00:26:56,570 --> 00:26:54,840
that that's what he means by using the

692
00:26:58,490 --> 00:26:56,580
word will he means endogenous

693
00:27:00,710 --> 00:26:58,500
experiences you know in other words

694
00:27:02,990 --> 00:27:00,720
experiences that are not perceptual in

695
00:27:04,269 --> 00:27:03,000
nature they are endogenous they arise

696
00:27:07,370 --> 00:27:04,279
from within

697
00:27:10,610 --> 00:27:07,380
and representation is how those

698
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:10,620
experiences present themselves to

699
00:27:14,690 --> 00:27:12,240
external observation

700
00:27:18,529 --> 00:27:14,700
so the world is Will

701
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:18,539
and the world presents itself to us as

702
00:27:23,690 --> 00:27:21,120
the physical world which is pure

703
00:27:27,950 --> 00:27:23,700
representation and for schopenhauer

704
00:27:30,830 --> 00:27:27,960
causality is a as a concept applies only

705
00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:30,840
to representation so only when you're

706
00:27:34,990 --> 00:27:32,460
talking about the language of

707
00:27:38,690 --> 00:27:35,000
representation can you talk about

708
00:27:41,810 --> 00:27:38,700
causality the will behind it as the

709
00:27:44,810 --> 00:27:41,820
thing in itself precedes causality but

710
00:27:47,330 --> 00:27:44,820
it is not random because it follows

711
00:27:49,850 --> 00:27:47,340
certain archetypal templates and he goes

712
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:49,860
on and Compares that with Plato's ideal

713
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:52,320
forms and so on so in essence

714
00:27:58,070 --> 00:27:55,279
schopenhauer I think well in spirit

715
00:28:00,830 --> 00:27:58,080
schopenhauer was a determinist with the

716
00:28:03,470 --> 00:28:00,840
important caveat that he was a subtle

717
00:28:05,750 --> 00:28:03,480
determinist he would say and he he

718
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:05,760
wouldn't say that causality is the whole

719
00:28:10,730 --> 00:28:07,919
thing he would say causality is emergent

720
00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:10,740
causality is something that applies to

721
00:28:16,010 --> 00:28:13,440
the language of appearances not of the

722
00:28:17,930 --> 00:28:16,020
things in themselves but the things in

723
00:28:19,850 --> 00:28:17,940
themselves are not purely random the

724
00:28:22,130 --> 00:28:19,860
house unfolding unfold according to

725
00:28:25,549 --> 00:28:22,140
certain templates

726
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:25,559
um so in that sense that the spirit of

727
00:28:30,169 --> 00:28:27,840
determinism is is preserved in

728
00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:30,179
schopenhauer if not the letter

729
00:28:35,149 --> 00:28:32,220
yes I would say that shopping hour was a

730
00:28:37,130 --> 00:28:35,159
metaformal meta-determinist and I would

731
00:28:39,409 --> 00:28:37,140
say that basically he was a semiotician

732
00:28:41,029 --> 00:28:39,419
as well I would say that he had this

733
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:41,039
idea that there was something called

734
00:28:44,930 --> 00:28:42,720
will from which a semiotic

735
00:28:46,909 --> 00:28:44,940
representation emerged

736
00:28:50,090 --> 00:28:46,919
emergencies of course the concept that

737
00:28:52,789 --> 00:28:50,100
you've already mentioned so in in my

738
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:52,799
system in my system of metaphysics

739
00:28:58,750 --> 00:28:55,919
Telesis is primary will his primary and

740
00:29:02,690 --> 00:28:58,760
then it factorizes itself it actually

741
00:29:04,549 --> 00:29:02,700
fractionates or factors itself into two

742
00:29:05,930 --> 00:29:04,559
sides of Representative representation

743
00:29:08,450 --> 00:29:05,940
which is the sign and the thing

744
00:29:10,930 --> 00:29:08,460
signified by it okay plus something

745
00:29:14,750 --> 00:29:10,940
called thirdness which of course is is

746
00:29:16,850 --> 00:29:14,760
The Interpreter of of the sign and all

747
00:29:19,370 --> 00:29:16,860
of these things three things are

748
00:29:21,409 --> 00:29:19,380
combined in the ctmu in the metaformal

749
00:29:23,810 --> 00:29:21,419
system by something called triality

750
00:29:28,370 --> 00:29:23,820
which means that any object can be

751
00:29:30,769 --> 00:29:28,380
regarded as a relation or an operation

752
00:29:33,289 --> 00:29:30,779
or process you can take all of those

753
00:29:35,269 --> 00:29:33,299
things at everywhere combine them so

754
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:35,279
that's that's very good yes I think that

755
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:37,440
this is something that schopenhauer was

756
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:40,320
trying to formulate but he was uh he

757
00:29:44,210 --> 00:29:42,000
didn't have the mathematics at the time

758
00:29:45,649 --> 00:29:44,220
you know he lived you know a long time

759
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:45,659
ago and they didn't have most of these

760
00:29:49,610 --> 00:29:48,000
Concepts out there so he was unable to

761
00:29:52,010 --> 00:29:49,620
Marshal them all and scrape them

762
00:29:54,049 --> 00:29:52,020
together and build a system up

763
00:29:56,710 --> 00:29:54,059
so that's what that's what I'm trying to

764
00:29:58,850 --> 00:29:56,720
make up for is lost time due to

765
00:30:05,470 --> 00:29:58,860
insufficient mathematical understanding

766
00:30:11,450 --> 00:30:09,230
but the reference to to semiotics well

767
00:30:12,950 --> 00:30:11,460
semiotics is language related is

768
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:12,960
something that has to do with language

769
00:30:17,450 --> 00:30:15,600
that's the word semiotics that's what it

770
00:30:20,210 --> 00:30:17,460
means actually they're separated used

771
00:30:22,490 --> 00:30:20,220
language and semiotics semiotics is the

772
00:30:25,370 --> 00:30:22,500
pure science the pure representational

773
00:30:26,750 --> 00:30:25,380
information mappings that that mediate

774
00:30:28,490 --> 00:30:26,760
between science and that reference right

775
00:30:30,649 --> 00:30:28,500
whereas language is something that takes

776
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:30,659
those signs and puts them together in

777
00:30:35,269 --> 00:30:32,640
higher order combinations

778
00:30:40,190 --> 00:30:35,279
so I think for schopenhauer the wheel in

779
00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:40,200
itself would not be related to signs or

780
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:42,720
or language signs and language would be

781
00:30:47,930 --> 00:30:45,360
the Paradigm of the of the appearances

782
00:30:49,490 --> 00:30:47,940
of the representations the the voice

783
00:30:52,430 --> 00:30:49,500
telling

784
00:30:55,610 --> 00:30:52,440
um not anything inherent in the will

785
00:30:59,269 --> 00:30:55,620
itself the will

786
00:31:02,269 --> 00:30:59,279
um for schopenhauer was beyond time and

787
00:31:05,810 --> 00:31:02,279
space and therefore the distinctions

788
00:31:09,710 --> 00:31:05,820
that are presupposed by semiotics

789
00:31:11,630 --> 00:31:09,720
wouldn't be there in the will in itself

790
00:31:14,029 --> 00:31:11,640
um those distinctions would only appear

791
00:31:16,009 --> 00:31:14,039
in in the appearances in in their

792
00:31:19,130 --> 00:31:16,019
representations and then language could

793
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:19,140
be applied or semiotics at first and um

794
00:31:24,830 --> 00:31:22,080
in Chopin hour you you would even have

795
00:31:26,029 --> 00:31:24,840
to get to what he called

796
00:31:29,930 --> 00:31:26,039
um

797
00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:29,940
abstract representations which was his

798
00:31:33,230 --> 00:31:31,679
old-fashioned word for what we today

799
00:31:36,649 --> 00:31:33,240
would call

800
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:36,659
um meta cognition it's when you you take

801
00:31:42,830 --> 00:31:39,840
a sign in other words an appearance

802
00:31:45,049 --> 00:31:42,840
and then you cognitively process that

803
00:31:47,570 --> 00:31:45,059
sign you think about the thought or you

804
00:31:49,909 --> 00:31:47,580
think about the perception and that

805
00:31:53,509 --> 00:31:49,919
would be an abstract representation uh

806
00:31:56,750 --> 00:31:53,519
in in Chopin hours language and language

807
00:31:59,930 --> 00:31:56,760
would require that first it would

808
00:32:01,850 --> 00:31:59,940
require not only representations but

809
00:32:04,610 --> 00:32:01,860
abstract representations in other words

810
00:32:07,009 --> 00:32:04,620
representations of representations and

811
00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:07,019
now we are talking about the world of

812
00:32:12,769 --> 00:32:10,080
uh semantics you know signs and their

813
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:12,779
meanings and and and and and how those

814
00:32:17,090 --> 00:32:14,640
meanings are put together in a

815
00:32:19,130 --> 00:32:17,100
linguistic uh structure so I'm not

816
00:32:20,810 --> 00:32:19,140
contradicting what you said Chris I'm

817
00:32:22,930 --> 00:32:20,820
I'm but we are talking about

818
00:32:27,130 --> 00:32:22,940
schopenhauer and I feel uh a

819
00:32:29,930 --> 00:32:27,140
responsibility for adding more um

820
00:32:31,549 --> 00:32:29,940
yeah no problem whatsoever

821
00:32:34,370 --> 00:32:31,559
um yeah I'm just saying that uh that

822
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:34,380
basically I do think that schopenhauer

823
00:32:40,549 --> 00:32:36,480
was although he may not have realized it

824
00:32:43,730 --> 00:32:40,559
completely he was a uh he was a must

825
00:32:47,990 --> 00:32:43,740
he believed in a monarch theory in which

826
00:32:49,610 --> 00:32:48,000
in which it's not it Telesis or or will

827
00:32:51,769 --> 00:32:49,620
and representation are not just

828
00:32:54,470 --> 00:32:51,779
dualistically linked and separated

829
00:32:56,630 --> 00:32:54,480
I say that on some level he understood

830
00:32:58,610 --> 00:32:56,640
that the representations have to be

831
00:33:02,509 --> 00:32:58,620
coming from the world will has sometimes

832
00:33:05,149 --> 00:33:02,519
yes some kind of console yes exactly not

833
00:33:06,590 --> 00:33:05,159
a causal prophecy and that's more or

834
00:33:09,529 --> 00:33:06,600
less what I'm talking I'm saying that

835
00:33:11,870 --> 00:33:09,539
that representation is is it's a binary

836
00:33:14,690 --> 00:33:11,880
mapping or binary relation and I'm

837
00:33:17,690 --> 00:33:14,700
saying that to let it's like cellular

838
00:33:19,610 --> 00:33:17,700
mitosis I'm saying that Telesis has to

839
00:33:21,769 --> 00:33:19,620
split into those two things

840
00:33:23,630 --> 00:33:21,779
while meanwhile forming itself from the

841
00:33:26,690 --> 00:33:23,640
bottom Arc by two things coming together

842
00:33:28,190 --> 00:33:26,700
in a physical event to particles whack

843
00:33:30,710 --> 00:33:28,200
into each other as something of this

844
00:33:32,930 --> 00:33:30,720
nature and that's that's basically the

845
00:33:34,490 --> 00:33:32,940
metaphor concept that I'm getting at and

846
00:33:36,049 --> 00:33:34,500
schopenhauer is useful in this regard

847
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:36,059
because that's what I think he was

848
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:37,760
trying to get at too

849
00:33:43,789 --> 00:33:41,039
people today who think that schopenhauer

850
00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:43,799
was in some sense a dualist or a dual

851
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:45,840
aspect monist I can only say they

852
00:33:49,130 --> 00:33:47,760
haven't read you up an hour they didn't

853
00:33:51,169 --> 00:33:49,140
they didn't even begin to read

854
00:33:54,649 --> 00:33:51,179
schopenhauer because the man couldn't

855
00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:54,659
have been more unambiguous more explicit

856
00:33:59,210 --> 00:33:57,360
than he was in the world as wheel and

857
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:59,220
representation particularly from the

858
00:34:03,529 --> 00:34:01,200
second edition on when he added you know

859
00:34:06,730 --> 00:34:03,539
twice the material he kept the original

860
00:34:10,190 --> 00:34:06,740
but then doubled it he repeats himself

861
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:10,200
so many times he says the same thing in

862
00:34:14,990 --> 00:34:12,480
so many different ways as though to make

863
00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:15,000
sure that he couldn't be misunderstood

864
00:34:19,750 --> 00:34:17,040
at the battery was being paid by the

865
00:34:23,869 --> 00:34:22,849
it's just it's surreal in Wikipedia the

866
00:34:26,649 --> 00:34:23,879
other day it was still listing

867
00:34:32,450 --> 00:34:26,659
schopenhauer as a Duo aspect uh theorist

868
00:34:35,569 --> 00:34:32,460
uh and even the the world's uh supposed

869
00:34:37,550 --> 00:34:35,579
um greatest scholar in schopenhauer uh

870
00:34:39,649 --> 00:34:37,560
character from the UK called uh

871
00:34:42,609 --> 00:34:39,659
Christopher Janeway

872
00:34:44,810 --> 00:34:42,619
um the man just doesn't understand

873
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:44,820
schopenhauer I mean I'm sure he has

874
00:34:48,889 --> 00:34:47,040
studied schopenhauer a lot but you know

875
00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:48,899
intensity of study does not guarantee

876
00:34:52,909 --> 00:34:50,879
understanding and the guy doesn't even

877
00:34:54,349 --> 00:34:52,919
begin to understand schopenhauer he

878
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:54,359
thinks schopenhauer is a crass

879
00:34:58,849 --> 00:34:57,119
materialist and it's absurd I don't

880
00:35:00,550 --> 00:34:58,859
think I read some of your comments on on

881
00:35:02,810 --> 00:35:00,560
January

882
00:35:05,870 --> 00:35:02,820
about I know you wrote a book on

883
00:35:07,370 --> 00:35:05,880
showpenauer yeah a few years ago yeah

884
00:35:09,290 --> 00:35:07,380
but you also wrote an essay I think that

885
00:35:12,170 --> 00:35:09,300
accompanied the book or was a some kind

886
00:35:14,030 --> 00:35:12,180
of a prequel to The Book right in which

887
00:35:17,930 --> 00:35:14,040
you would talk did talk about this

888
00:35:19,970 --> 00:35:17,940
Fellowship anyway yeah yeah

889
00:35:22,230 --> 00:35:19,980
I've been trying to bait him for a while

890
00:35:25,130 --> 00:35:22,240
but he doesn't take debate he's wiser

891
00:35:26,329 --> 00:35:25,140
[Music]

892
00:35:28,910 --> 00:35:26,339
okay let's talk about talk about free

893
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:28,920
will it seems like that's what is at the

894
00:35:33,290 --> 00:35:31,200
core here so I'll do so by reading a

895
00:35:35,690 --> 00:35:33,300
question which is directed toward Chris

896
00:35:37,010 --> 00:35:35,700
but then obviously if you pull something

897
00:35:39,410 --> 00:35:37,020
out even though it has some terminology

898
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:39,420
that's specific to the ctmu Bernardo

899
00:35:42,829 --> 00:35:41,280
please comment on it as well okay hey

900
00:35:45,230 --> 00:35:42,839
Kurt I'm reposting this from YouTube

901
00:35:47,630 --> 00:35:45,240
it's for Chris on the topic of Free Will

902
00:35:50,750 --> 00:35:47,640
derived from the ctmu if you can ask

903
00:35:52,490 --> 00:35:50,760
this you'll forever be my hero you once

904
00:35:55,609 --> 00:35:52,500
said I believe he's referring to you

905
00:35:57,890 --> 00:35:55,619
Chris Chris you said that the universe

906
00:36:00,589 --> 00:35:57,900
but because the universe is only itself

907
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:00,599
to Define itself everything in it must

908
00:36:06,290 --> 00:36:03,839
exemplify its Elementary freedom I think

909
00:36:08,569 --> 00:36:06,300
I understand from your defining reality

910
00:36:11,210 --> 00:36:08,579
as as all real influence that reality

911
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:11,220
cannot be abbreviated because if you

912
00:36:16,550 --> 00:36:13,200
were able to simplify it with no loss

913
00:36:19,130 --> 00:36:16,560
whatever was removed could not logically

914
00:36:20,750 --> 00:36:19,140
have been real I understand where to

915
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:20,760
take this to imply that reality could

916
00:36:25,370 --> 00:36:23,040
not have come from anything simpler than

917
00:36:27,770 --> 00:36:25,380
its full definition and what can't be

918
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:27,780
simplified must be contributory

919
00:36:31,970 --> 00:36:30,480
throughout that said you've still

920
00:36:33,950 --> 00:36:31,980
maintained a strong distinction between

921
00:36:36,770 --> 00:36:33,960
tertiary syntactors

922
00:36:40,250 --> 00:36:36,780
objects and secondary syntactors slash

923
00:36:41,329 --> 00:36:40,260
tellers life forms read life forms in

924
00:36:43,810 --> 00:36:41,339
terms of

925
00:36:45,950 --> 00:36:43,820
the amount that they are determinative

926
00:36:47,450 --> 00:36:45,960
considering that you've shown that

927
00:36:49,130 --> 00:36:47,460
reality is a mind

928
00:36:50,990 --> 00:36:49,140
could we liken the distinction to the

929
00:36:53,390 --> 00:36:51,000
difference between ideas of objects and

930
00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:53,400
ideas of self where just like ideas all

931
00:36:57,710 --> 00:36:55,200
objects have some significance specific

932
00:37:00,829 --> 00:36:57,720
to them however seemingly but now but

933
00:37:02,870 --> 00:37:00,839
only tellers as ideas of self would be

934
00:37:05,150 --> 00:37:02,880
self-modeling and therefore truly take

935
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:05,160
on self-awareness that's why they're

936
00:37:10,190 --> 00:37:07,200
called tellers that's why self

937
00:37:12,470 --> 00:37:10,200
type identity operators are called

938
00:37:15,290 --> 00:37:12,480
pillows whereas tertiary identity

939
00:37:17,089 --> 00:37:15,300
operators are fermionic more or less and

940
00:37:18,890 --> 00:37:17,099
they are inanimate or at least usually

941
00:37:20,569 --> 00:37:18,900
considered to be inanimate but basically

942
00:37:22,370 --> 00:37:20,579
they're embedded in secondary tellers

943
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:22,380
and therefore they take that higher

944
00:37:26,810 --> 00:37:24,960
order metacausation that that ability to

945
00:37:28,910 --> 00:37:26,820
self the model from the secondary

946
00:37:30,349 --> 00:37:28,920
tolerance so I assume you're answering

947
00:37:31,970 --> 00:37:30,359
the question right now but Chris I

948
00:37:34,010 --> 00:37:31,980
didn't understand the question so can

949
00:37:38,089 --> 00:37:34,020
you explain the question back to myself

950
00:37:39,950 --> 00:37:38,099
and then answer it well it states you

951
00:37:42,530 --> 00:37:39,960
know there's no such thing as a state in

952
00:37:44,030 --> 00:37:42,540
isolation states are always relatively

953
00:37:46,790 --> 00:37:44,040
defined that's why we have theories of

954
00:37:50,210 --> 00:37:46,800
Relativity and things but what must the

955
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:50,220
state be defined relative to well any to

956
00:37:54,349 --> 00:37:51,599
completely define any state in the

957
00:37:56,390 --> 00:37:54,359
universe you need to refer to every

958
00:37:59,329 --> 00:37:56,400
other state in the universe because it

959
00:38:00,230 --> 00:37:59,339
parameterizes that statement okay and

960
00:38:01,790 --> 00:38:00,240
you don't get a complete

961
00:38:03,109 --> 00:38:01,800
parameterization unless you have the

962
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:03,119
full matter distribution and the full

963
00:38:08,569 --> 00:38:06,720
metric okay so that's what it takes

964
00:38:11,569 --> 00:38:08,579
can I see if I can I make an analogy

965
00:38:13,490 --> 00:38:11,579
there's a duality between a set and the

966
00:38:15,290 --> 00:38:13,500
complement of a set assuming that the

967
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:15,300
set is within some other large set that

968
00:38:19,190 --> 00:38:16,560
you can call right so let's say the

969
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:19,200
large status s you have a subset U then

970
00:38:23,810 --> 00:38:21,839
there's a duality between you and you

971
00:38:25,490 --> 00:38:23,820
with a c which is the complement of it

972
00:38:27,770 --> 00:38:25,500
the teller and the environment right

973
00:38:30,290 --> 00:38:27,780
exactly self and nonsense

974
00:38:31,970 --> 00:38:30,300
okay sorry continue okay well the

975
00:38:33,770 --> 00:38:31,980
environment of course is just the medium

976
00:38:35,870 --> 00:38:33,780
minus the total or in other words the

977
00:38:38,210 --> 00:38:35,880
what is external to the median but it's

978
00:38:41,150 --> 00:38:38,220
outside the boundary of the uh of the

979
00:38:43,849 --> 00:38:41,160
telhor and so you get this basically

980
00:38:47,630 --> 00:38:43,859
this self-deal the self-dual construct

981
00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:47,640
which is a telor environment coupling

982
00:38:51,230 --> 00:38:49,200
okay and this tell our environment

983
00:38:53,089 --> 00:38:51,240
coupling is very important to the ctme

984
00:38:55,370 --> 00:38:53,099
because that's kind of a metaformal

985
00:38:56,990 --> 00:38:55,380
point it's one way of expressing ctmu

986
00:38:58,849 --> 00:38:57,000
quantization okay you have to put the

987
00:39:01,130 --> 00:38:58,859
medium together with the object

988
00:39:03,470 --> 00:39:01,140
the object is its own median through

989
00:39:07,130 --> 00:39:03,480
through this process called conspension

990
00:39:09,530 --> 00:39:07,140
which is the operation through which the

991
00:39:11,390 --> 00:39:09,540
universe evolves on the global level now

992
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:11,400
in order to get semantic meaning out of

993
00:39:16,849 --> 00:39:13,920
that you know basically it's basically

994
00:39:18,589 --> 00:39:16,859
it's called Cosmic expense

995
00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:18,599
to get meaning out of that then you need

996
00:39:23,210 --> 00:39:20,880
another process called tele recursion

997
00:39:25,010 --> 00:39:23,220
which then specifies it has semantic

998
00:39:26,329 --> 00:39:25,020
structure through the syntactic

999
00:39:27,530 --> 00:39:26,339
structure that's built up by cost

1000
00:39:30,170 --> 00:39:27,540
fashion

1001
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:30,180
Chris it's been almost a year since I

1002
00:39:33,950 --> 00:39:32,400
studied the ctmu and when I did I didn't

1003
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:33,960
go back to it which means I've forgotten

1004
00:39:38,210 --> 00:39:35,760
so much of it so much of the terminology

1005
00:39:40,130 --> 00:39:38,220
as I would have done myself okay so much

1006
00:39:41,569 --> 00:39:40,140
of the terminology it goes through me so

1007
00:39:43,849 --> 00:39:41,579
italic recursion I have a vague

1008
00:39:46,130 --> 00:39:43,859
recollection that it's where the

1009
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:46,140
universe exercises free will it looks at

1010
00:39:51,770 --> 00:39:49,920
some generalized utility State and then

1011
00:39:53,829 --> 00:39:51,780
makes a decision that's where tellur is

1012
00:39:56,089 --> 00:39:53,839
self-configure this was secondary

1013
00:39:58,790 --> 00:39:56,099
identity operators or teller was

1014
00:39:59,870 --> 00:39:58,800
self-configured they actually become the

1015
00:40:02,450 --> 00:39:59,880
media

1016
00:40:04,190 --> 00:40:02,460
okay and I know that uh Bernardo

1017
00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:04,200
actually Embraces something like this

1018
00:40:10,849 --> 00:40:07,920
and is uh his analytic idealism I think

1019
00:40:13,609 --> 00:40:10,859
is what he calls okay basically you've

1020
00:40:16,910 --> 00:40:13,619
got to have that going

1021
00:40:20,030 --> 00:40:16,920
okay so let me be blunt so free will in

1022
00:40:23,390 --> 00:40:20,040
your theory and your model Chris exists

1023
00:40:25,010 --> 00:40:23,400
and Bernardo if I'm correct you're

1024
00:40:27,050 --> 00:40:25,020
against the idea of free will at least

1025
00:40:29,710 --> 00:40:27,060
currently well let me tell you what free

1026
00:40:32,270 --> 00:40:29,720
will is first person okay

1027
00:40:34,130 --> 00:40:32,280
yes uh as I said there is no

1028
00:40:37,430 --> 00:40:34,140
typographical array in the metaphor

1029
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:37,440
system okay you can't use the parameter

1030
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:40,800
as a state you cannot just use a a fixed

1031
00:40:46,370 --> 00:40:43,440
array a fixed array the array has to be

1032
00:40:49,309 --> 00:40:46,380
changing geometric uh geometry

1033
00:40:52,309 --> 00:40:49,319
dynamically is the term that uh that

1034
00:40:54,109 --> 00:40:52,319
they followers of Einstein came up with

1035
00:40:56,510 --> 00:40:54,119
to describe what must be going on it's

1036
00:40:58,970 --> 00:40:56,520
happening behind the scenes okay Free

1037
00:41:01,370 --> 00:40:58,980
Will happens because things are

1038
00:41:04,030 --> 00:41:01,380
determined metacosly you know and

1039
00:41:07,970 --> 00:41:04,040
metaformally which means that that that

1040
00:41:09,890 --> 00:41:07,980
things have to be coupled or factorized

1041
00:41:12,890 --> 00:41:09,900
right in other words it's just not this

1042
00:41:14,950 --> 00:41:12,900
linear process this causal process but

1043
00:41:18,349 --> 00:41:14,960
it's this high order process called

1044
00:41:20,329 --> 00:41:18,359
medicalization that is occurred and this

1045
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:20,339
is free will

1046
00:41:26,329 --> 00:41:23,280
if we look at a conspensive cycle in the

1047
00:41:27,890 --> 00:41:26,339
ctmu it's an alpha omega cycle in other

1048
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:27,900
words it starts in an orgs and it ends

1049
00:41:31,069 --> 00:41:29,040
with the boundary and those two things

1050
00:41:33,349 --> 00:41:31,079
are in advanced and

1051
00:41:36,890 --> 00:41:33,359
communication with each other

1052
00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:36,900
right Free Will is in determining one of

1053
00:41:40,970 --> 00:41:39,599
those consequence of Cycles regardless

1054
00:41:43,190 --> 00:41:40,980
of what it says

1055
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:43,200
so in other words I do there is a there

1056
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:45,359
is a way to define free will that gets

1057
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:47,520
out of this pseudo-costal dichotomy

1058
00:41:52,849 --> 00:41:50,160
between the terminacy and indeterminacy

1059
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:52,859
that we were talking about earlier

1060
00:41:56,089 --> 00:41:54,240
right in other words you're creating the

1061
00:41:59,210 --> 00:41:56,099
media you're actually creating space

1062
00:42:00,770 --> 00:41:59,220
time as you create a new state

1063
00:42:01,910 --> 00:42:00,780
right when you bring that new mental

1064
00:42:04,670 --> 00:42:01,920
state into your head you've actually

1065
00:42:06,770 --> 00:42:04,680
done it by creating space time

1066
00:42:08,510 --> 00:42:06,780
all right this is a this is a kind of a

1067
00:42:10,130 --> 00:42:08,520
very profound very weird way of looking

1068
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:10,140
at it I understand but it sounds weird

1069
00:42:14,990 --> 00:42:12,240
but it's the only way in my opinion

1070
00:42:16,430 --> 00:42:15,000
things can work um I I recommend more

1071
00:42:18,290 --> 00:42:16,440
generically because I'm not familiar

1072
00:42:21,230 --> 00:42:18,300
with the Chris's terminology so it's

1073
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:21,240
it's impossible for me to to go into the

1074
00:42:27,890 --> 00:42:24,720
details of that but um you you offered

1075
00:42:30,770 --> 00:42:27,900
uh Kurt that I am currently against free

1076
00:42:34,490 --> 00:42:30,780
will there's a lot of nuance to this so

1077
00:42:37,010 --> 00:42:34,500
let me try to to clarify this if the the

1078
00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:37,020
question of Free Will is linked to a

1079
00:42:41,750 --> 00:42:39,359
materialist metaphysics

1080
00:42:43,670 --> 00:42:41,760
um like people worrying that oh if my

1081
00:42:46,490 --> 00:42:43,680
choices are determined by the patterns

1082
00:42:48,650 --> 00:42:46,500
of brain activity in my brain uh then I

1083
00:42:51,609 --> 00:42:48,660
don't have free will well on that

1084
00:42:55,210 --> 00:42:51,619
account I think people need not

1085
00:42:57,650 --> 00:42:55,220
be afraid because I don't think

1086
00:43:00,950 --> 00:42:57,660
physiological patterns of brain activity

1087
00:43:04,130 --> 00:43:00,960
cause your choices I think they are what

1088
00:43:05,890 --> 00:43:04,140
your choices look like in schopenhauer's

1089
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:05,900
terminology the their appearances

1090
00:43:11,569 --> 00:43:09,119
representations the thing in itself is

1091
00:43:14,030 --> 00:43:11,579
your choice so no your choices are not

1092
00:43:15,770 --> 00:43:14,040
determined by your brain activity your

1093
00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:15,780
brain activities what's the process of

1094
00:43:20,450 --> 00:43:18,000
making choices look like and then you

1095
00:43:22,849 --> 00:43:20,460
would say well then I am endorsing Free

1096
00:43:24,890 --> 00:43:22,859
Will well now we have now to understand

1097
00:43:27,710 --> 00:43:24,900
what people mean by Free Will what

1098
00:43:30,770 --> 00:43:27,720
people mean by it is that their choices

1099
00:43:33,050 --> 00:43:30,780
are determined by that which they

1100
00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:33,060
identify themselves with

1101
00:43:37,550 --> 00:43:35,280
as opposed to being determined by

1102
00:43:40,130 --> 00:43:37,560
something that they don't identify with

1103
00:43:41,690 --> 00:43:40,140
and most people don't identify with

1104
00:43:43,370 --> 00:43:41,700
their brain activity they never get to

1105
00:43:46,430 --> 00:43:43,380
see it they don't identify with it

1106
00:43:48,109 --> 00:43:46,440
that's why when when a physicalist says

1107
00:43:50,990 --> 00:43:48,119
wow your choices are determined by your

1108
00:43:52,550 --> 00:43:51,000
brain activity people feel that as a

1109
00:43:54,829 --> 00:43:52,560
violation of their free will because

1110
00:43:57,230 --> 00:43:54,839
they identify with their own mental

1111
00:44:00,410 --> 00:43:57,240
processes the the flow of their

1112
00:44:02,089 --> 00:44:00,420
Consciousness not with physical patterns

1113
00:44:03,710 --> 00:44:02,099
of bringing activity inside their skull

1114
00:44:05,150 --> 00:44:03,720
which they which they never saw in their

1115
00:44:07,609 --> 00:44:05,160
lives

1116
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:07,619
um now let's think about the mind of

1117
00:44:11,690 --> 00:44:08,880
nature

1118
00:44:15,950 --> 00:44:11,700
there is

1119
00:44:18,470 --> 00:44:15,960
so need and and Will are the same thing

1120
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:18,480
there is nothing I mean

1121
00:44:24,410 --> 00:44:21,599
I I have to work right I'm forced by my

1122
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:24,420
Society to work so my choice to work is

1123
00:44:29,390 --> 00:44:27,119
not freely determined by me it's a need

1124
00:44:31,490 --> 00:44:29,400
imposed on me by the society and I don't

1125
00:44:34,309 --> 00:44:31,500
identify with the rest of the society so

1126
00:44:36,770 --> 00:44:34,319
my Free Will has been cut short in that

1127
00:44:39,050 --> 00:44:36,780
regard but if you are the mind of nature

1128
00:44:41,569 --> 00:44:39,060
there is no Society there is no world

1129
00:44:42,890 --> 00:44:41,579
outside of you there's nothing Beyond

1130
00:44:48,770 --> 00:44:42,900
you

1131
00:44:50,809 --> 00:44:48,780
of nature are free in the sense that

1132
00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:50,819
they are determined but they are

1133
00:44:54,530 --> 00:44:52,319
determined by you

1134
00:44:58,490 --> 00:44:54,540
you see your notification exactly yeah

1135
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:58,500
the need and the choice are that are one

1136
00:45:03,349 --> 00:45:00,240
and the same there is no semantic

1137
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:03,359
difference between determinism and Free

1138
00:45:08,030 --> 00:45:05,520
Will at the level of the mind of nature

1139
00:45:10,089 --> 00:45:08,040
because yes the choices are determined

1140
00:45:12,290 --> 00:45:10,099
even people who believe in free will

1141
00:45:14,450 --> 00:45:12,300
they are not saying that their choices

1142
00:45:16,190 --> 00:45:14,460
are random they're saying that their

1143
00:45:19,309 --> 00:45:16,200
choices are determined by their

1144
00:45:20,930 --> 00:45:19,319
preferences their tastes they are

1145
00:45:23,569 --> 00:45:20,940
determined by them

1146
00:45:25,670 --> 00:45:23,579
at the level of the mind of nature every

1147
00:45:27,470 --> 00:45:25,680
choice is determined by the mind of

1148
00:45:29,450 --> 00:45:27,480
nature because there is nothing beyond

1149
00:45:31,790 --> 00:45:29,460
the universal mind the universal

1150
00:45:34,010 --> 00:45:31,800
Consciousness so even the question of

1151
00:45:37,250 --> 00:45:34,020
Free Will disappears there is a semantic

1152
00:45:40,250 --> 00:45:37,260
space for it it doesn't make sense to

1153
00:45:42,829 --> 00:45:40,260
talk about it but

1154
00:45:44,750 --> 00:45:42,839
the choices are still determined

1155
00:45:46,730 --> 00:45:44,760
in the sense that they are not random

1156
00:45:49,790 --> 00:45:46,740
the choices of the mind of nature are

1157
00:45:52,370 --> 00:45:49,800
determined by what the mind of nature is

1158
00:45:55,550 --> 00:45:52,380
its characteristics its properties

1159
00:45:57,950 --> 00:45:55,560
determine the choices it makes it cannot

1160
00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:57,960
abstract of itself otherwise the choices

1161
00:46:03,530 --> 00:46:00,000
would be completely random and that's

1162
00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:03,540
incoherent to say that right yeah I

1163
00:46:06,890 --> 00:46:05,280
would merely add that we what we have to

1164
00:46:09,109 --> 00:46:06,900
do is we have to distinguish Free Will

1165
00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:09,119
what's happening there from determinacy

1166
00:46:14,089 --> 00:46:12,240
and non-determinacy okay so with it is

1167
00:46:16,010 --> 00:46:14,099
useful to talk about free will just to

1168
00:46:18,410 --> 00:46:16,020
distinguish it from what we usually mean

1169
00:46:20,089 --> 00:46:18,420
by causation and once we do that then we

1170
00:46:21,230 --> 00:46:20,099
find out that we can describe it in a

1171
00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:21,240
certain way

1172
00:46:26,450 --> 00:46:23,760
right in terms of this conspiration and

1173
00:46:27,710 --> 00:46:26,460
teleprecursion saying what I was talking

1174
00:46:30,349 --> 00:46:27,720
about earlier

1175
00:46:33,530 --> 00:46:30,359
I think ultimately everything is

1176
00:46:35,650 --> 00:46:33,540
determined even your choices are

1177
00:46:38,329 --> 00:46:35,660
determined by your tastes by your

1178
00:46:41,150 --> 00:46:38,339
dispositions you know your opinion your

1179
00:46:44,270 --> 00:46:41,160
class your question imagine just imagine

1180
00:46:46,490 --> 00:46:44,280
the origin of reality what determined

1181
00:46:47,690 --> 00:46:46,500
the structure of reality in other words

1182
00:46:49,069 --> 00:46:47,700
there was nothing outside really

1183
00:46:51,410 --> 00:46:49,079
according to general relativity

1184
00:46:53,510 --> 00:46:51,420
basically reality is quantically and

1185
00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:53,520
geometrically closed okay so there's

1186
00:46:56,809 --> 00:46:55,200
nothing else so there's no there's no

1187
00:46:58,670 --> 00:46:56,819
extrinsic

1188
00:47:00,589 --> 00:46:58,680
it's a conversation that could have

1189
00:47:02,750 --> 00:47:00,599
caused the universe to take any

1190
00:47:05,150 --> 00:47:02,760
particular form so aren't we talking

1191
00:47:07,670 --> 00:47:05,160
about the universe taking its own form

1192
00:47:09,410 --> 00:47:07,680
somehow deciding within itself what form

1193
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:09,420
it should take

1194
00:47:14,930 --> 00:47:12,240
deciding within itself can only happen

1195
00:47:16,130 --> 00:47:14,940
if that decision is determined by what

1196
00:47:19,250 --> 00:47:16,140
it is

1197
00:47:20,950 --> 00:47:19,260
yes but what decides who decides what it

1198
00:47:24,290 --> 00:47:20,960
is

1199
00:47:26,930 --> 00:47:24,300
nobody at the end of the day at the

1200
00:47:29,030 --> 00:47:26,940
bottom level of nature something exists

1201
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:29,040
that cannot be explained in terms of

1202
00:47:32,450 --> 00:47:30,960
anything else we cannot explain one

1203
00:47:33,890 --> 00:47:32,460
thing in terms of another forever it

1204
00:47:36,109 --> 00:47:33,900
doesn't matter what metaphysics one

1205
00:47:37,490 --> 00:47:36,119
subscribes to reality we cannot keep on

1206
00:47:38,930 --> 00:47:37,500
reducing forever otherwise you

1207
00:47:40,190 --> 00:47:38,940
eventually you will go back to the

1208
00:47:41,230 --> 00:47:40,200
beginning and it will be a circular

1209
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:41,240
reasoning

1210
00:47:45,650 --> 00:47:43,680
unless it's not important that actually

1211
00:47:46,910 --> 00:47:45,660
applies to themselves you don't get to

1212
00:47:48,890 --> 00:47:46,920
the top of the ladder you just keep on

1213
00:47:51,290 --> 00:47:48,900
going from run to run to run and each

1214
00:47:52,730 --> 00:47:51,300
rung is identical to the last group

1215
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:52,740
right and then it's some form of

1216
00:47:57,770 --> 00:47:55,440
infinite regress no at the end of no the

1217
00:47:59,930 --> 00:47:57,780
item potency says that it stays the same

1218
00:48:01,790 --> 00:47:59,940
you're not regressing anyway okay it's

1219
00:48:04,190 --> 00:48:01,800
just it reaches a static point of

1220
00:48:06,890 --> 00:48:04,200
Maximum generalization and then it holds

1221
00:48:08,089 --> 00:48:06,900
steady it doesn't make any difference

1222
00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:08,099
yeah you're going the other way around

1223
00:48:12,589 --> 00:48:09,839
now I'm thinking about reduction I'm

1224
00:48:14,569 --> 00:48:12,599
going down to the bottom there has to be

1225
00:48:19,309 --> 00:48:14,579
something at the bottom that simply is

1226
00:48:23,690 --> 00:48:21,829
yeah now earlier you said

1227
00:48:25,609 --> 00:48:23,700
um for something to exist it needs to

1228
00:48:27,890 --> 00:48:25,619
have properties to say that something is

1229
00:48:31,069 --> 00:48:27,900
an object means that it has properties

1230
00:48:33,109 --> 00:48:31,079
so to be is to have properties I agree

1231
00:48:35,390 --> 00:48:33,119
with you there to be is to have

1232
00:48:37,309 --> 00:48:35,400
properties whatever it is that you are

1233
00:48:39,049 --> 00:48:37,319
you are one thing and not another in

1234
00:48:41,809 --> 00:48:39,059
other words there are properties

1235
00:48:44,089 --> 00:48:41,819
Associated to your beingness now

1236
00:48:46,069 --> 00:48:44,099
whatever there is at the end of the

1237
00:48:49,549 --> 00:48:46,079
chain of reduction the bottom line of

1238
00:48:50,990 --> 00:48:49,559
nature it just is and therefore it has

1239
00:48:52,970 --> 00:48:51,000
properties

1240
00:48:55,190 --> 00:48:52,980
everything that it does is then

1241
00:48:57,049 --> 00:48:55,200
determined by its properties it's

1242
00:48:59,390 --> 00:48:57,059
determined by what it is

1243
00:49:02,030 --> 00:48:59,400
as opposed to what it is not or to what

1244
00:49:07,849 --> 00:49:02,040
it could have been so even the mind of

1245
00:49:11,270 --> 00:49:09,530
I mean we're not attaching any you're

1246
00:49:12,530 --> 00:49:11,280
not attaching any properties to this

1247
00:49:14,690 --> 00:49:12,540
ultimate reduction that you're talking

1248
00:49:16,730 --> 00:49:14,700
about so in that but you're saying and

1249
00:49:19,250 --> 00:49:16,740
yet everything with the universe is is

1250
00:49:21,410 --> 00:49:19,260
somehow determined by it I don't think

1251
00:49:23,630 --> 00:49:21,420
that's you know quite kosher I think

1252
00:49:25,930 --> 00:49:23,640
that we have to actually try to attach

1253
00:49:28,490 --> 00:49:25,940
some properties to it in order

1254
00:49:31,549 --> 00:49:28,500
I just had to be is to have properties

1255
00:49:34,010 --> 00:49:31,559
so whatever there is at the bottom level

1256
00:49:37,150 --> 00:49:34,020
of the chain of reduction it has

1257
00:49:39,609 --> 00:49:37,160
properties now we may not know directly

1258
00:49:42,290 --> 00:49:39,619
self-assigned properties right yes

1259
00:49:44,270 --> 00:49:42,300
intrinsic not self-assigned it's it's

1260
00:49:46,370 --> 00:49:44,280
intrinsic to the beingness of the thing

1261
00:49:48,170 --> 00:49:46,380
to be is to have properties but against

1262
00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:48,180
what background are we are we

1263
00:49:52,309 --> 00:49:50,160
distinguishing those properties the

1264
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:52,319
background of what could have been so

1265
00:49:57,290 --> 00:49:54,720
the lawsuits are what they are so

1266
00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:57,300
gravity makes objects fall we could live

1267
00:50:02,390 --> 00:49:59,760
in a universe in which a gravity pulls

1268
00:50:04,790 --> 00:50:02,400
objects up it's a it's a repellent as

1269
00:50:07,609 --> 00:50:04,800
opposed to an attractor now that's not

1270
00:50:09,470 --> 00:50:07,619
what is the laws of nature are what they

1271
00:50:13,010 --> 00:50:09,480
are are as opposed to what they could

1272
00:50:16,370 --> 00:50:13,020
have been in our imagination so whatever

1273
00:50:20,270 --> 00:50:16,380
nature is it has properties and that's

1274
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:20,280
why objects fall in static electricity

1275
00:50:26,990 --> 00:50:23,040
is produced when you rub Amber to to to

1276
00:50:29,150 --> 00:50:27,000
to to to to a cloth cloth so

1277
00:50:31,130 --> 00:50:29,160
this stuff that is I understand

1278
00:50:33,170 --> 00:50:31,140
everything that you're saying okay let's

1279
00:50:35,210 --> 00:50:33,180
see but if it had properties then those

1280
00:50:36,890 --> 00:50:35,220
properties had negations and something

1281
00:50:38,270 --> 00:50:36,900
had to distinguish those properties from

1282
00:50:40,309 --> 00:50:38,280
indications

1283
00:50:41,809 --> 00:50:40,319
okay otherwise it is useless to talk

1284
00:50:43,309 --> 00:50:41,819
about them having properties at all

1285
00:50:45,349 --> 00:50:43,319
there's got to be the property there's

1286
00:50:47,390 --> 00:50:45,359
going to be the The Logical complement

1287
00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:47,400
of that property and something has to be

1288
00:50:52,010 --> 00:50:49,920
doing the logic of it all for us to for

1289
00:50:54,530 --> 00:50:52,020
for reality itself for Ultimate Reality

1290
00:50:56,750 --> 00:50:54,540
to perceive what its properties are or

1291
00:50:59,630 --> 00:50:56,760
to act as though those properties exist

1292
00:51:02,270 --> 00:50:59,640
you follow me that something is us and

1293
00:51:04,069 --> 00:51:02,280
our ability to conceive of nature being

1294
00:51:06,049 --> 00:51:04,079
different than what it is and we are

1295
00:51:08,150 --> 00:51:06,059
parts of reality where sensor control is

1296
00:51:10,069 --> 00:51:08,160
for reality as a whole so that's our

1297
00:51:12,950 --> 00:51:10,079
function

1298
00:51:14,230 --> 00:51:12,960
to conceive of what could have been in

1299
00:51:16,849 --> 00:51:14,240
theory or

1300
00:51:19,490 --> 00:51:16,859
after consuming that to conceive of what

1301
00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:19,500
is yeah yeah but I'm trying to speak of

1302
00:51:23,510 --> 00:51:21,839
something even much simpler than we are

1303
00:51:26,030 --> 00:51:23,520
getting to right now what I'm trying to

1304
00:51:28,490 --> 00:51:26,040
say is the following wherever there is

1305
00:51:30,890 --> 00:51:28,500
at the chain of reduction it has

1306
00:51:33,589 --> 00:51:30,900
properties and Its Behavior is

1307
00:51:36,530 --> 00:51:33,599
determined by the properties it has in

1308
00:51:39,589 --> 00:51:36,540
other words the behavior of nature is

1309
00:51:41,150 --> 00:51:39,599
determined by what nature is as opposed

1310
00:51:42,770 --> 00:51:41,160
to anything else we could conceive

1311
00:51:45,589 --> 00:51:42,780
nature to be

1312
00:51:48,170 --> 00:51:45,599
so ultimately everything is determined

1313
00:51:50,589 --> 00:51:48,180
it ought to be determined otherwise we

1314
00:51:53,930 --> 00:51:50,599
just throw science and then down down

1315
00:51:55,490 --> 00:51:53,940
that's a that's a tautology you're not

1316
00:51:57,710 --> 00:51:55,500
actually we're looking for something

1317
00:52:00,170 --> 00:51:57,720
when you see determined I'm looking for

1318
00:52:02,630 --> 00:52:00,180
a causal dependency I'm looking for a

1319
00:52:03,950 --> 00:52:02,640
cause and an effect of some kind okay

1320
00:52:06,950 --> 00:52:03,960
that's what you're talking about the

1321
00:52:08,930 --> 00:52:06,960
same right right okay so that what we're

1322
00:52:12,290 --> 00:52:08,940
talking about however is a tautology

1323
00:52:14,569 --> 00:52:12,300
everything is intense not yes it is it

1324
00:52:16,730 --> 00:52:14,579
has to be it's everything is intrinsic

1325
00:52:18,950 --> 00:52:16,740
because reality is optically closed

1326
00:52:21,170 --> 00:52:18,960
there is nothing outside of reality that

1327
00:52:23,390 --> 00:52:21,180
is real enough to affect reality

1328
00:52:25,370 --> 00:52:23,400
it's a logical contradiction to disagree

1329
00:52:27,710 --> 00:52:25,380
with that what I said is not a tautology

1330
00:52:28,609 --> 00:52:27,720
it's not a tautology what I'm saying is

1331
00:52:33,589 --> 00:52:28,619
that

1332
00:52:36,250 --> 00:52:33,599
conceivably have been it is what it is

1333
00:52:38,270 --> 00:52:36,260
and not anything else

1334
00:52:41,089 --> 00:52:38,280
properties and those properties

1335
00:52:43,609 --> 00:52:41,099
determine what happens so the universe

1336
00:52:45,970 --> 00:52:43,619
expands as opposed to collapsing because

1337
00:52:49,849 --> 00:52:45,980
the properties of the universe are such

1338
00:52:52,010 --> 00:52:49,859
that they cause the universe to expand I

1339
00:52:53,690 --> 00:52:52,020
agree so you can speak of causation in

1340
00:52:56,210 --> 00:52:53,700
the language of representation in that

1341
00:52:58,849 --> 00:52:56,220
sense without being tautological and if

1342
00:53:01,910 --> 00:52:58,859
we speak of Minds then we have to

1343
00:53:03,950 --> 00:53:01,920
abandon well we have to say but I'm

1344
00:53:06,290 --> 00:53:03,960
trying to yes yes I'm trying to get down

1345
00:53:08,809 --> 00:53:06,300
to the properties that you are ascribing

1346
00:53:10,790 --> 00:53:08,819
to Ultimate Reality reality is what it

1347
00:53:13,670 --> 00:53:10,800
is as you say you're 100 right about

1348
00:53:15,589 --> 00:53:13,680
that but what are its properties and how

1349
00:53:17,390 --> 00:53:15,599
do things happen because of those

1350
00:53:20,450 --> 00:53:17,400
preferences so I'm trying to get to that

1351
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:20,460
to that so we've been speaking with the

1352
00:53:23,930 --> 00:53:21,839
language of schopenhauer's

1353
00:53:26,030 --> 00:53:23,940
representations the physical world and

1354
00:53:27,470 --> 00:53:26,040
Science and causation but you and I

1355
00:53:30,410 --> 00:53:27,480
agree that at the end of the day there

1356
00:53:32,569 --> 00:53:30,420
is only one mind one business so what is

1357
00:53:34,130 --> 00:53:32,579
the language of the will how do we

1358
00:53:36,290 --> 00:53:34,140
describe what I'm saying in the language

1359
00:53:38,990 --> 00:53:36,300
of the will of the thing in itself well

1360
00:53:42,109 --> 00:53:39,000
Jung gave us the language Jung talked

1361
00:53:45,349 --> 00:53:42,119
about the archetypes which are this

1362
00:53:47,690 --> 00:53:45,359
intrinsic primordial templates of mental

1363
00:53:50,870 --> 00:53:47,700
behavior and those templates are

1364
00:53:52,210 --> 00:53:50,880
intrinsic they are there because mind is

1365
00:53:55,970 --> 00:53:52,220
what it is

1366
00:53:58,609 --> 00:53:55,980
and if nature is a mind then then the

1367
00:54:00,230 --> 00:53:58,619
archetypes of nature are those

1368
00:54:01,849 --> 00:54:00,240
properties so you don't think the mind

1369
00:54:03,370 --> 00:54:01,859
is conditioned to have those properties

1370
00:54:06,829 --> 00:54:03,380
you don't think there's anything wrong

1371
00:54:07,970 --> 00:54:06,839
okay you think the mind just is what it

1372
00:54:12,109 --> 00:54:07,980
is

1373
00:54:14,510 --> 00:54:12,119
saying those properties are the

1374
00:54:15,890 --> 00:54:14,520
archetypes in jungian Psychology applied

1375
00:54:18,049 --> 00:54:15,900
to the collective unconsciousness

1376
00:54:20,569 --> 00:54:18,059
applied to a mind that is not a

1377
00:54:22,790 --> 00:54:20,579
individual mind okay so you realize you

1378
00:54:24,530 --> 00:54:22,800
were assigning a property there

1379
00:54:28,130 --> 00:54:24,540
but that's what I'm saying Chris I'm

1380
00:54:30,049 --> 00:54:28,140
saying that to be is to have properties

1381
00:54:32,569 --> 00:54:30,059
yes I would agree with that and it's

1382
00:54:34,430 --> 00:54:32,579
also to have values or instances

1383
00:54:36,349 --> 00:54:34,440
so that way it's self-doule you don't

1384
00:54:37,370 --> 00:54:36,359
have to separate the instances from the

1385
00:54:40,130 --> 00:54:37,380
properties

1386
00:54:42,289 --> 00:54:40,140
okay and if you you can call reality an

1387
00:54:44,510 --> 00:54:42,299
instance of itself and that's the

1388
00:54:47,089 --> 00:54:44,520
tautology that I'm talking about

1389
00:54:48,650 --> 00:54:47,099
okay so I call it a super tautology it's

1390
00:54:49,549 --> 00:54:48,660
not I I don't know why you're saying

1391
00:54:51,650 --> 00:54:49,559
this I don't know what you're talking

1392
00:54:53,210 --> 00:54:51,660
about to be honest I don't know what

1393
00:54:55,250 --> 00:54:53,220
you're talking about instances of itself

1394
00:54:57,410 --> 00:54:55,260
reality is what it is to be is to have

1395
00:54:59,089 --> 00:54:57,420
properties those properties are what we

1396
00:55:01,490 --> 00:54:59,099
could call archetypes templates of

1397
00:55:03,589 --> 00:55:01,500
behavior of mind and that's why nature

1398
00:55:05,650 --> 00:55:03,599
behaves the way it does because it has

1399
00:55:08,750 --> 00:55:05,660
whatever archetypes it does have

1400
00:55:10,430 --> 00:55:08,760
existing nature instantiates those

1401
00:55:12,049 --> 00:55:10,440
properties you're assigning or

1402
00:55:13,430 --> 00:55:12,059
distributing properties to Nature and

1403
00:55:14,809 --> 00:55:13,440
the nature is instantiating the

1404
00:55:16,849 --> 00:55:14,819
properties am I right

1405
00:55:19,069 --> 00:55:16,859
if you want to speak the language of

1406
00:55:21,289 --> 00:55:19,079
mathematics you can speak that way I'm

1407
00:55:23,089 --> 00:55:21,299
not sure how helpful it is to the

1408
00:55:25,370 --> 00:55:23,099
audience it's very it's very helpful

1409
00:55:28,130 --> 00:55:25,380
because that's what a super tautology is

1410
00:55:31,849 --> 00:55:28,140
it's it's something that is its own

1411
00:55:34,370 --> 00:55:31,859
properties and its own instances

1412
00:55:35,809 --> 00:55:34,380
why do we speak of instances if there is

1413
00:55:37,250 --> 00:55:35,819
only one thing I don't think this

1414
00:55:40,549 --> 00:55:37,260
language is helpful at all it's

1415
00:55:42,589 --> 00:55:40,559
obscurantism well it's with all due

1416
00:55:44,809 --> 00:55:42,599
respect it's not just obscurantism there

1417
00:55:46,789 --> 00:55:44,819
are instances of properties out there

1418
00:55:49,089 --> 00:55:46,799
you are an instance of the properties

1419
00:55:51,470 --> 00:55:49,099
that make up Bernardo okay I'm an insta

1420
00:55:53,510 --> 00:55:51,480
an instance of the properties that make

1421
00:55:55,430 --> 00:55:53,520
up Chris and likewise for Kurt yeah but

1422
00:55:57,710 --> 00:55:55,440
Chris and Bernardo exists in a broader

1423
00:55:59,210 --> 00:55:57,720
context but the mind of nature is what

1424
00:56:01,849 --> 00:55:59,220
there is there is there is nothing else

1425
00:56:04,010 --> 00:56:01,859
so twice why to speak of instances I'm

1426
00:56:05,390 --> 00:56:04,020
not arguing against you there I I'd be

1427
00:56:07,250 --> 00:56:05,400
the last person in the world to argue

1428
00:56:08,990 --> 00:56:07,260
with you about that I'm just trying to

1429
00:56:10,789 --> 00:56:09,000
pin down some of these properties that

1430
00:56:12,710 --> 00:56:10,799
we're ascribing to Ultimate or basic

1431
00:56:14,329 --> 00:56:12,720
reality once you get all the way down to

1432
00:56:15,950 --> 00:56:14,339
the bottom of the reduction as you said

1433
00:56:19,250 --> 00:56:15,960
then there's got to be something there

1434
00:56:21,530 --> 00:56:19,260
what is it so now we're we're stuck you

1435
00:56:23,809 --> 00:56:21,540
see we have to say Okay well whatever it

1436
00:56:25,970 --> 00:56:23,819
is it's part of reality therefore

1437
00:56:28,190 --> 00:56:25,980
reality goes in a circle it's this big

1438
00:56:31,250 --> 00:56:28,200
self-defined loop

1439
00:56:33,650 --> 00:56:31,260
right that's so that's my

1440
00:56:35,569 --> 00:56:33,660
you follow that fair enough okay fair

1441
00:56:38,750 --> 00:56:35,579
enough now do we know what those

1442
00:56:40,309 --> 00:56:38,760
properties are directly of course not

1443
00:56:43,970 --> 00:56:40,319
um we know

1444
00:56:46,490 --> 00:56:43,980
what results from those properties the

1445
00:56:48,470 --> 00:56:46,500
behavior of the universe results from

1446
00:56:51,829 --> 00:56:48,480
those properties or those archetypes

1447
00:56:54,289 --> 00:56:51,839
whatever those intrinsic properties are

1448
00:56:57,410 --> 00:56:54,299
um and it turns out that the behavior of

1449
00:56:59,450 --> 00:56:57,420
nature is regular fairly predictable so

1450
00:57:01,190 --> 00:56:59,460
I would say that they are determined by

1451
00:57:03,410 --> 00:57:01,200
those properties which we don't know

1452
00:57:06,049 --> 00:57:03,420
directly but we can infer that they

1453
00:57:08,750 --> 00:57:06,059
exist because nature behaves in a fairly

1454
00:57:10,190 --> 00:57:08,760
regular and predictable way do you think

1455
00:57:12,470 --> 00:57:10,200
that we do you think that we have

1456
00:57:13,609 --> 00:57:12,480
anything to do with determining any of

1457
00:57:16,849 --> 00:57:13,619
those properties

1458
00:57:18,530 --> 00:57:16,859
the properties are what they are by

1459
00:57:20,510 --> 00:57:18,540
virtue of the fact that the universe is

1460
00:57:22,789 --> 00:57:20,520
what it is and we are part of the

1461
00:57:25,549 --> 00:57:22,799
universe so we don't determine them we

1462
00:57:27,410 --> 00:57:25,559
are determined by them well could there

1463
00:57:29,450 --> 00:57:27,420
be a reciprocity there I mean could

1464
00:57:31,970 --> 00:57:29,460
there be they determine us and then we

1465
00:57:34,549 --> 00:57:31,980
determine them back I don't think so I

1466
00:57:36,589 --> 00:57:34,559
think if you're talking about the most

1467
00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:36,599
innate properties

1468
00:57:41,030 --> 00:57:38,640
then they are the properties of what

1469
00:57:44,390 --> 00:57:41,040
there is they are what they are because

1470
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:44,400
the universe is what it is now we could

1471
00:57:51,410 --> 00:57:48,000
we could determine meta Properties or we

1472
00:57:54,410 --> 00:57:51,420
could play a role in the the causal

1473
00:57:57,589 --> 00:57:54,420
unfolding that derives from those

1474
00:57:59,569 --> 00:57:57,599
properties yes that we could do but I

1475
00:58:01,190 --> 00:57:59,579
don't think there we go and by

1476
00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:01,200
participating in that unfold you you

1477
00:58:05,329 --> 00:58:03,119
mean we're just like passive things that

1478
00:58:06,770 --> 00:58:05,339
allow properties to emerge through us

1479
00:58:08,990 --> 00:58:06,780
but have nothing to do with creating the

1480
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:09,000
properties themselves I'm talking about

1481
00:58:13,309 --> 00:58:11,280
the fundamental properties now you could

1482
00:58:15,109 --> 00:58:13,319
talk about the properties at many levels

1483
00:58:16,910 --> 00:58:15,119
that are not fundamental of course like

1484
00:58:18,650 --> 00:58:16,920
human beings have properties but those

1485
00:58:20,990 --> 00:58:18,660
are not the fundamental properties of

1486
00:58:22,730 --> 00:58:21,000
the universe or or black holes have

1487
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:22,740
properties but those are not the

1488
00:58:26,809 --> 00:58:24,480
fundamental properties of the universe

1489
00:58:28,309 --> 00:58:26,819
at the the bottom of the chain of

1490
00:58:30,410 --> 00:58:28,319
causation and you don't see yourself as

1491
00:58:32,770 --> 00:58:30,420
implicated at all in in actually

1492
00:58:35,569 --> 00:58:32,780
configuring those larger properties

1493
00:58:37,250 --> 00:58:35,579
those secondary derivative properties

1494
00:58:39,829 --> 00:58:37,260
yes of course we are part of the

1495
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:39,839
unfolding dynamics of the universe so

1496
00:58:43,910 --> 00:58:41,760
now if you if you detonate a nuclear

1497
00:58:45,950 --> 00:58:43,920
bomb on the moon will change the

1498
00:58:48,049 --> 00:58:45,960
properties of the the moon yeah we can

1499
00:58:51,650 --> 00:58:48,059
influence that that's trivial trivially

1500
00:58:53,809 --> 00:58:51,660
so but I was talking about the bottom

1501
00:58:56,750 --> 00:58:53,819
level fundamental properties of

1502
00:58:58,849 --> 00:58:56,760
existence I don't think we can change

1503
00:59:01,309 --> 00:58:58,859
those for the same reason that a human

1504
00:59:03,890 --> 00:59:01,319
being can't change it his or her own

1505
00:59:07,250 --> 00:59:03,900
mental archetypes those are inherent to

1506
00:59:09,109 --> 00:59:07,260
the beingness of the Universe I I agree

1507
00:59:11,390 --> 00:59:09,119
I agree with almost everything you said

1508
00:59:14,089 --> 00:59:11,400
except for you seem to be saying okay it

1509
00:59:15,589 --> 00:59:14,099
just is that's it and I'm saying maybe

1510
00:59:18,410 --> 00:59:15,599
we can actually reach in there and

1511
00:59:20,750 --> 00:59:18,420
induce some properties some actual

1512
00:59:22,130 --> 00:59:20,760
specific properties that lead to this

1513
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:22,140
whole thing being structured the way it

1514
00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:23,280
is

1515
00:59:28,849 --> 00:59:25,920
uh well I I commented on that already so

1516
00:59:31,069 --> 00:59:28,859
I think it's clear hopefully

1517
00:59:33,710 --> 00:59:31,079
okay well that you seem to be saying the

1518
00:59:35,390 --> 00:59:33,720
universe is meta deterministic

1519
00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:35,400
or super duty I don't know what you mean

1520
00:59:39,289 --> 00:59:37,200
by that so I cannot say yes or no but

1521
00:59:40,910 --> 00:59:39,299
maybe maybe well you say that the

1522
00:59:42,829 --> 00:59:40,920
structure of the universe is determined

1523
00:59:43,910 --> 00:59:42,839
by what it is and what its properties

1524
00:59:46,010 --> 00:59:43,920
are

1525
00:59:48,049 --> 00:59:46,020
all right what it is and what's prop

1526
00:59:50,809 --> 00:59:48,059
what its properties are are the same

1527
00:59:52,970 --> 00:59:50,819
thing said in two different ways well

1528
00:59:55,130 --> 00:59:52,980
yes but there's also an extension with

1529
00:59:56,750 --> 00:59:55,140
the with the intention the intention is

1530
00:59:58,309 --> 00:59:56,760
the properties now we need the instances

1531
00:59:59,870 --> 00:59:58,319
as well

1532
01:00:02,510 --> 00:59:59,880
those are the things that the properties

1533
01:00:05,390 --> 01:00:02,520
intersect in oh you know if you could

1534
01:00:06,770 --> 01:00:05,400
talk about a red heavy object okay and

1535
01:00:08,809 --> 01:00:06,780
then you can take a cannonball and paint

1536
01:00:10,849 --> 01:00:08,819
it red that's an instance instantiating

1537
01:00:12,530 --> 01:00:10,859
both of those properties right the

1538
01:00:14,450 --> 01:00:12,540
properties don't refer to each other

1539
01:00:16,250 --> 01:00:14,460
heavy isn't red and red isn't heavy

1540
01:00:18,770 --> 01:00:16,260
right but if we have instances then we

1541
01:00:20,510 --> 01:00:18,780
can make the properties interact

1542
01:00:21,829 --> 01:00:20,520
so we need both of those things and I'm

1543
01:00:24,289 --> 01:00:21,839
just saying that they're metformally

1544
01:00:25,370 --> 01:00:24,299
coupled and that's what we do in the ctm

1545
01:00:26,990 --> 01:00:25,380
unit

1546
01:00:28,370 --> 01:00:27,000
I think you're I think you're very

1547
01:00:29,870 --> 01:00:28,380
insightful and I think we agree on

1548
01:00:32,030 --> 01:00:29,880
almost everything but there are a couple

1549
01:00:34,549 --> 01:00:32,040
of sticking points here otherwise it

1550
01:00:36,589 --> 01:00:34,559
wouldn't really be a theologution would

1551
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:36,599
it

1552
01:00:40,789 --> 01:00:38,880
last brief aside for today's sponsor

1553
01:00:42,829 --> 01:00:40,799
manscaped you may have noticed that in

1554
01:00:45,230 --> 01:00:42,839
brown and what's concomitant with being

1555
01:00:47,030 --> 01:00:45,240
Brown is being hairy that's why I'm

1556
01:00:48,470 --> 01:00:47,040
happy that support for theories of

1557
01:00:51,049 --> 01:00:48,480
everything is brought to you by

1558
01:00:53,329 --> 01:00:51,059
manscaped who's number one in Men's

1559
01:00:55,609 --> 01:00:53,339
Grooming below the waist there's also an

1560
01:00:58,250 --> 01:00:55,619
ear and nose trimmer which I use and

1561
01:01:00,650 --> 01:00:58,260
happily sew as you can see the package I

1562
01:01:02,809 --> 01:01:00,660
have is the performance package 4.0 it

1563
01:01:05,109 --> 01:01:02,819
comes with crop preserver and crop

1564
01:01:07,910 --> 01:01:05,119
reviver which are male genitalia

1565
01:01:09,530 --> 01:01:07,920
deodorant and toner respectively if you

1566
01:01:12,049 --> 01:01:09,540
thought condoms were difficult to ask

1567
01:01:14,450 --> 01:01:12,059
for well try asking the 65 year old lady

1568
01:01:16,670 --> 01:01:14,460
behind the counter for what will improve

1569
01:01:18,829 --> 01:01:16,680
your gonad's texture luckily you don't

1570
01:01:20,690 --> 01:01:18,839
have to since manscaped is online this

1571
01:01:22,490 --> 01:01:20,700
package even comes with this shirt which

1572
01:01:24,650 --> 01:01:22,500
I wear pretty much exclusively to the

1573
01:01:26,990 --> 01:01:24,660
gym I may not be able to bench the most

1574
01:01:29,750 --> 01:01:27,000
but I can pretty much guarantee that I'm

1575
01:01:32,289 --> 01:01:29,760
the most testicularly hygienic get 20

1576
01:01:35,750 --> 01:01:32,299
off and free shipping with the code

1577
01:01:38,990 --> 01:01:35,760
everything20 at manscaped.com that's 20

1578
01:01:41,450 --> 01:01:39,000
off with shipping at manscaped.com using

1579
01:01:42,829 --> 01:01:41,460
the code everything20 unlock your

1580
01:01:45,170 --> 01:01:42,839
confidence and always use the right

1581
01:01:47,089 --> 01:01:45,180
tools for the job with manscaped let's

1582
01:01:49,730 --> 01:01:47,099
get to this with a more mythological

1583
01:01:51,770 --> 01:01:49,740
question are Jesus and Buddha attempting

1584
01:01:53,210 --> 01:01:51,780
to answer the same problem but from

1585
01:01:55,190 --> 01:01:53,220
different perspectives are they

1586
01:01:56,990 --> 01:01:55,200
answering different problems are there

1587
01:01:58,910 --> 01:01:57,000
answers their teachings whatever they

1588
01:02:00,109 --> 01:01:58,920
may be are they commensurate though on

1589
01:02:01,250 --> 01:02:00,119
the surface at least to me they

1590
01:02:03,230 --> 01:02:01,260
contradict

1591
01:02:05,150 --> 01:02:03,240
there's quite a few questions there

1592
01:02:06,049 --> 01:02:05,160
Bernardo if you don't mind starting that

1593
01:02:07,730 --> 01:02:06,059
off

1594
01:02:11,270 --> 01:02:07,740
I I'm

1595
01:02:13,490 --> 01:02:11,280
I'm not a religious studies specialist

1596
01:02:15,170 --> 01:02:13,500
so you have to take anything and

1597
01:02:17,809 --> 01:02:15,180
everything I'm about to say with the

1598
01:02:20,870 --> 01:02:17,819
enormous grain of salt maybe a whole bag

1599
01:02:23,210 --> 01:02:20,880
of it I have a good friend who is a

1600
01:02:24,770 --> 01:02:23,220
specialist Jeffrey crippo if Jeff is

1601
01:02:29,029 --> 01:02:24,780
listening to this I hope he will not

1602
01:02:30,109 --> 01:02:29,039
cringe with what I'm about to say

1603
01:02:33,230 --> 01:02:30,119
um

1604
01:02:35,150 --> 01:02:33,240
I think they are they were trying to

1605
01:02:40,069 --> 01:02:35,160
answer the same question

1606
01:02:42,670 --> 01:02:40,079
and I think if you penetrate beyond the

1607
01:02:45,710 --> 01:02:42,680
surface of appearances and different

1608
01:02:47,569 --> 01:02:45,720
metaphors and symbols and the different

1609
01:02:50,089 --> 01:02:47,579
languages they spoke you know there is a

1610
01:02:53,029 --> 01:02:50,099
difference of 500 years between them and

1611
01:02:55,069 --> 01:02:53,039
a difference in geographies as well so

1612
01:02:58,010 --> 01:02:55,079
if you can penetrate beyond all that and

1613
01:02:59,690 --> 01:02:58,020
look at the essence of their answers I

1614
01:03:03,170 --> 01:02:59,700
think it was essentially the same answer

1615
01:03:05,329 --> 01:03:03,180
actually there are serious studies and

1616
01:03:08,270 --> 01:03:05,339
there's a serious academic opinion that

1617
01:03:10,970 --> 01:03:08,280
Christianity in fact may be derived from

1618
01:03:13,609 --> 01:03:10,980
Buddhism there is even speculation about

1619
01:03:17,029 --> 01:03:13,619
where Jesus might have been during that

1620
01:03:19,069 --> 01:03:17,039
time between his 12th year and his 30th

1621
01:03:22,730 --> 01:03:19,079
year right

1622
01:03:24,289 --> 01:03:22,740
for now huh do you mean vetism

1623
01:03:26,390 --> 01:03:24,299
or are you do you really mean that

1624
01:03:28,250 --> 01:03:26,400
Christianity was drought for Buddhism

1625
01:03:30,589 --> 01:03:28,260
Christianity derives from Buddhism

1626
01:03:32,270 --> 01:03:30,599
that's that's one academic opinion that

1627
01:03:34,609 --> 01:03:32,280
has been put forward there's even

1628
01:03:37,250 --> 01:03:34,619
speculation that Jesus who was in India

1629
01:03:40,250 --> 01:03:37,260
during that time of his life where the

1630
01:03:42,589 --> 01:03:40,260
Bible says nothing about him

1631
01:03:44,510 --> 01:03:42,599
um I think the questions the fundamental

1632
01:03:45,410 --> 01:03:44,520
question they were both trying to answer

1633
01:03:51,950 --> 01:03:45,420
is

1634
01:03:54,710 --> 01:03:51,960
us as human beings and the Universe At

1635
01:03:56,210 --> 01:03:54,720
Large what is that relationship Jung put

1636
01:03:58,609 --> 01:03:56,220
it in the following words

1637
01:04:00,349 --> 01:03:58,619
are we related to something Transcendent

1638
01:04:04,549 --> 01:04:00,359
to something infinite or not that that

1639
01:04:06,650 --> 01:04:04,559
is in the gazillion dollar question are

1640
01:04:08,930 --> 01:04:06,660
we related to something infinite or not

1641
01:04:11,150 --> 01:04:08,940
and I think they both were trying to

1642
01:04:14,089 --> 01:04:11,160
answer this question that relationship

1643
01:04:16,069 --> 01:04:14,099
between us as individual individuals and

1644
01:04:18,349 --> 01:04:16,079
the Universe At Large existence at large

1645
01:04:20,930 --> 01:04:18,359
what is that relationship because we

1646
01:04:24,289 --> 01:04:20,940
take the cue for our behavior from our

1647
01:04:26,690 --> 01:04:24,299
tentative answer to that question our

1648
01:04:28,490 --> 01:04:26,700
our inner narrative about what that

1649
01:04:30,410 --> 01:04:28,500
relation is

1650
01:04:33,349 --> 01:04:30,420
um and I wouldn't I would even go as far

1651
01:04:34,970 --> 01:04:33,359
and and to say that they they gave the

1652
01:04:35,569 --> 01:04:34,980
same answer

1653
01:04:38,329 --> 01:04:35,579
um

1654
01:04:39,710 --> 01:04:38,339
when Jesus talked of himself as the son

1655
01:04:42,049 --> 01:04:39,720
of God

1656
01:04:44,750 --> 01:04:42,059
he was talking about a fundamental

1657
01:04:45,829 --> 01:04:44,760
kinship between a human being and the

1658
01:04:49,430 --> 01:04:45,839
divinity

1659
01:04:51,609 --> 01:04:49,440
a fundamental kinship now the son of the

1660
01:04:54,589 --> 01:04:51,619
father is of the same kind as the father

1661
01:04:57,170 --> 01:04:54,599
bear Force because it's something that

1662
01:04:59,210 --> 01:04:57,180
came from the father and he also

1663
01:05:01,010 --> 01:04:59,220
emphasized the need

1664
01:05:02,750 --> 01:05:01,020
to

1665
01:05:05,630 --> 01:05:02,760
surrender

1666
01:05:07,309 --> 01:05:05,640
the direction of Our Lives to a greater

1667
01:05:10,910 --> 01:05:07,319
power

1668
01:05:13,309 --> 01:05:10,920
and if that's not Buddhism what is it

1669
01:05:15,410 --> 01:05:13,319
Buddhism is the surrender of the ego is

1670
01:05:18,829 --> 01:05:15,420
seen through the illusion of personal

1671
01:05:22,370 --> 01:05:18,839
identity individual identity

1672
01:05:25,549 --> 01:05:22,380
um it is connecting to a greater mental

1673
01:05:28,430 --> 01:05:25,559
context a greater cognitive context so I

1674
01:05:30,829 --> 01:05:28,440
think in essence yes they were both

1675
01:05:33,650 --> 01:05:30,839
saying the same thing and then

1676
01:05:35,089 --> 01:05:33,660
600 years later a little bit more there

1677
01:05:38,510 --> 01:05:35,099
came the prophet

1678
01:05:41,089 --> 01:05:38,520
and said the same thing and that's why

1679
01:05:43,970 --> 01:05:41,099
Muslims bow to a greater power five

1680
01:05:46,609 --> 01:05:43,980
times a day which I think is a is a

1681
01:05:49,730 --> 01:05:46,619
fantastic ritual it's a daily reminder

1682
01:05:51,890 --> 01:05:49,740
that our lives are not about us our

1683
01:05:54,710 --> 01:05:51,900
lives are about

1684
01:05:58,490 --> 01:05:54,720
something much bigger than us they're in

1685
01:06:00,890 --> 01:05:58,500
line the meaning of Our Lives

1686
01:06:03,289 --> 01:06:00,900
um and the kinship in Christianity

1687
01:06:05,569 --> 01:06:03,299
between Jesus and us is also there

1688
01:06:08,930 --> 01:06:05,579
explicit when when the Holy Ghost

1689
01:06:10,210 --> 01:06:08,940
descends into every righteous man woman

1690
01:06:14,329 --> 01:06:10,220
and child

1691
01:06:16,849 --> 01:06:14,339
and remember the Holy Ghost is Jesus so

1692
01:06:20,450 --> 01:06:16,859
when the Holy Ghost descends not only

1693
01:06:23,450 --> 01:06:20,460
into the apostles but every righteous

1694
01:06:25,849 --> 01:06:23,460
human being what is being said is that

1695
01:06:27,470 --> 01:06:25,859
there is a direct kingship between you

1696
01:06:29,630 --> 01:06:27,480
and the Son of God and of course a

1697
01:06:31,730 --> 01:06:29,640
direct kinship between between the Son

1698
01:06:34,210 --> 01:06:31,740
of God and the godhead

1699
01:06:39,049 --> 01:06:34,220
um it's a real it's a hierarchy of

1700
01:06:41,390 --> 01:06:39,059
kinships so to say of of identical kinds

1701
01:06:44,390 --> 01:06:41,400
um which basically tell us that we are

1702
01:06:46,190 --> 01:06:44,400
leafs in a great tree and and existence

1703
01:06:49,609 --> 01:06:46,200
is about the tree not about the leaves

1704
01:06:51,950 --> 01:06:49,619
imagine if the blossom of my apple tree

1705
01:06:55,309 --> 01:06:51,960
in my backyard in the spring would say

1706
01:06:57,829 --> 01:06:55,319
my life's about me I should take the

1707
01:07:00,470 --> 01:06:57,839
reins of My Life as a blossom because my

1708
01:07:02,990 --> 01:07:00,480
life's about me well we would laugh at

1709
01:07:05,089 --> 01:07:03,000
the Little Flower because no it's not

1710
01:07:06,829 --> 01:07:05,099
about the flower it's about the tree

1711
01:07:09,170 --> 01:07:06,839
it's about the fruit that will come

1712
01:07:11,150 --> 01:07:09,180
after the flower is gone and the tree

1713
01:07:14,390 --> 01:07:11,160
that will come from the fruit after the

1714
01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:14,400
fruit is is gone it's about a much

1715
01:07:19,010 --> 01:07:16,559
bigger context and I think that's the

1716
01:07:20,329 --> 01:07:19,020
message of Christianity and Buddhism the

1717
01:07:23,450 --> 01:07:20,339
need to surrender

1718
01:07:25,430 --> 01:07:23,460
ourselves to the greater directions of

1719
01:07:27,529 --> 01:07:25,440
existence and understand that it's not

1720
01:07:30,170 --> 01:07:27,539
about us has never been and will never

1721
01:07:32,990 --> 01:07:30,180
be and we do not need to invest

1722
01:07:35,270 --> 01:07:33,000
ourselves with this crushing

1723
01:07:37,549 --> 01:07:35,280
responsibility of manufacturing meaning

1724
01:07:41,270 --> 01:07:37,559
for our lives it's a necessary meaning

1725
01:07:43,130 --> 01:07:41,280
is intrinsic as long as you are in touch

1726
01:07:44,270 --> 01:07:43,140
with the movements of the impersonal

1727
01:07:46,430 --> 01:07:44,280
within us

1728
01:07:48,349 --> 01:07:46,440
we are in touch with meaning it's just

1729
01:07:49,910 --> 01:07:48,359
that we've become blind to it because of

1730
01:07:51,170 --> 01:07:49,920
the crazy narratives of our current

1731
01:07:54,349 --> 01:07:51,180
civilization

1732
01:07:58,730 --> 01:07:56,450
well I I agree with a lot of that very

1733
01:08:01,309 --> 01:07:58,740
poetic thank you Bernardo

1734
01:08:03,829 --> 01:08:01,319
um there is uh the primary issue is the

1735
01:08:05,930 --> 01:08:03,839
relationship between man and reality the

1736
01:08:08,809 --> 01:08:05,940
Ultimate Reality which is God

1737
01:08:11,510 --> 01:08:08,819
and uh to Christians anyway and I think

1738
01:08:14,390 --> 01:08:11,520
that it's productive to formulate this

1739
01:08:15,289 --> 01:08:14,400
this uh question in terms of the goal of

1740
01:08:21,709 --> 01:08:15,299
life

1741
01:08:24,289 --> 01:08:21,719
nirvana Chief Nirvana for the vedics it

1742
01:08:26,390 --> 01:08:24,299
was mugshot okay and for the Christians

1743
01:08:29,570 --> 01:08:26,400
it is salvation those are distinct

1744
01:08:31,729 --> 01:08:29,580
Concepts all right the the two of them

1745
01:08:35,149 --> 01:08:31,739
have to do with completely extricating

1746
01:08:38,510 --> 01:08:35,159
yourself from samsara you know the cycle

1747
01:08:40,070 --> 01:08:38,520
of birth and death and rebirth you

1748
01:08:41,689 --> 01:08:40,080
extricate yourself completely from that

1749
01:08:44,149 --> 01:08:41,699
and totally free yourself from the world

1750
01:08:46,669 --> 01:08:44,159
that exists what Christ was trying to

1751
01:08:49,309 --> 01:08:46,679
tell people is that you cannot extricate

1752
01:08:51,769 --> 01:08:49,319
yourself from God from the world that

1753
01:08:54,229 --> 01:08:51,779
exists you what you you have moral

1754
01:08:55,550 --> 01:08:54,239
responsibility you know here are your

1755
01:08:57,530 --> 01:08:55,560
moral responsibilities they're

1756
01:08:59,930 --> 01:08:57,540
enumerated in the Ten Commandments etc

1757
01:09:01,789 --> 01:08:59,940
etc and here's the Golden Rule so now

1758
01:09:03,410 --> 01:09:01,799
you've got a mathematical law of moral

1759
01:09:06,530 --> 01:09:03,420
symmetry that you can apply to the whole

1760
01:09:08,390 --> 01:09:06,540
thing so they're really in some respects

1761
01:09:10,189 --> 01:09:08,400
the answers are the same they give an

1762
01:09:11,930 --> 01:09:10,199
answer for what is the relationship

1763
01:09:14,450 --> 01:09:11,940
between man and reality but in other

1764
01:09:17,269 --> 01:09:14,460
respects they're very different

1765
01:09:18,649 --> 01:09:17,279
okay we have a moral responsibility to

1766
01:09:20,990 --> 01:09:18,659
our fellow human beings and through

1767
01:09:24,110 --> 01:09:21,000
reality and to God in Christianity

1768
01:09:26,030 --> 01:09:24,120
whereas in Buddhism it's not quite the

1769
01:09:27,590 --> 01:09:26,040
same thing there is some of that of

1770
01:09:31,490 --> 01:09:27,600
course there's a an equivalent to

1771
01:09:33,530 --> 01:09:31,500
morality in Buddhism and vetism now that

1772
01:09:35,510 --> 01:09:33,540
being said I mean that's uh I'm the

1773
01:09:38,390 --> 01:09:35,520
shove Buddhism aside for a second just

1774
01:09:40,070 --> 01:09:38,400
talk about that is you know and and if

1775
01:09:43,370 --> 01:09:40,080
you take a look at Buddhism and then you

1776
01:09:46,130 --> 01:09:43,380
take a look at Christian neoplatonism uh

1777
01:09:48,470 --> 01:09:46,140
as as uh set forth by platinus for

1778
01:09:50,630 --> 01:09:48,480
example and other you know people like

1779
01:09:52,910 --> 01:09:50,640
him you find that they're very very soon

1780
01:09:54,410 --> 01:09:52,920
you've got this this Vedic model where

1781
01:09:57,169 --> 01:09:54,420
you've you know you've got Brahman and

1782
01:09:59,090 --> 01:09:57,179
then from Brahman you come down to mind

1783
01:10:01,010 --> 01:09:59,100
and then from mind you go down to the

1784
01:10:03,590 --> 01:10:01,020
world right this is basically what

1785
01:10:04,910 --> 01:10:03,600
neoplatonism is okay and neoplatonism of

1786
01:10:07,370 --> 01:10:04,920
course was very popular among these

1787
01:10:09,350 --> 01:10:07,380
Scholastics medieval Christians right

1788
01:10:11,270 --> 01:10:09,360
and basically what they were doing was

1789
01:10:12,830 --> 01:10:11,280
they were embracing something very much

1790
01:10:15,770 --> 01:10:12,840
like vetism

1791
01:10:17,570 --> 01:10:15,780
so that's what we're that's that's these

1792
01:10:19,250 --> 01:10:17,580
are things that we have to observe when

1793
01:10:21,290 --> 01:10:19,260
we're trying to compare

1794
01:10:23,750 --> 01:10:21,300
these separate religions and what

1795
01:10:25,970 --> 01:10:23,760
they're all talking about okay great a

1796
01:10:28,370 --> 01:10:25,980
Christian says that well our job is to

1797
01:10:30,649 --> 01:10:28,380
achieve salvation we do that by moral

1798
01:10:32,810 --> 01:10:30,659
goodness okay Buddhism says much the

1799
01:10:35,270 --> 01:10:32,820
same thing okay you've gotta you know

1800
01:10:37,130 --> 01:10:35,280
you've got uh you've got this uh you've

1801
01:10:39,470 --> 01:10:37,140
got Dharma which is righteousness and

1802
01:10:42,290 --> 01:10:39,480
then you go from uh from righteousness

1803
01:10:47,149 --> 01:10:42,300
into Moksha Buddha was a little bit more

1804
01:10:48,950 --> 01:10:47,159
he was less uh less prescriptive about

1805
01:10:50,930 --> 01:10:48,960
these things right I mean there's

1806
01:10:52,669 --> 01:10:50,940
there's there are degrees of freedom in

1807
01:10:54,649 --> 01:10:52,679
Buddhism you know it's very very popular

1808
01:10:56,570 --> 01:10:54,659
because it seems to

1809
01:10:59,570 --> 01:10:56,580
um limit your moral responsibility

1810
01:11:01,729 --> 01:10:59,580
whereas this is something that Jesus and

1811
01:11:04,189 --> 01:11:01,739
and the Hindus were not necessarily

1812
01:11:06,470 --> 01:11:04,199
interested in doing there is this moral

1813
01:11:08,270 --> 01:11:06,480
responsibility it's inescapable and

1814
01:11:11,090 --> 01:11:08,280
that's that

1815
01:11:15,110 --> 01:11:11,100
Bernardo are you champing at the bit

1816
01:11:17,689 --> 01:11:15,120
uh but I just have him smoke I'm not

1817
01:11:21,010 --> 01:11:17,699
sure it's even worthwhile to mention it

1818
01:11:25,130 --> 01:11:21,020
but I I agree with with Chris that

1819
01:11:26,630 --> 01:11:25,140
medieval Scholars from before the 11th

1820
01:11:28,790 --> 01:11:26,640
century

1821
01:11:31,610 --> 01:11:28,800
um they flirted with neoplatonism John

1822
01:11:34,370 --> 01:11:31,620
scotus origena was one of them

1823
01:11:36,709 --> 01:11:34,380
um but the Scholastics and race star is

1824
01:11:39,530 --> 01:11:36,719
total and try to root out neoplatonism

1825
01:11:41,350 --> 01:11:39,540
but but okay it's it's just a small

1826
01:11:44,149 --> 01:11:41,360
small detail

1827
01:11:45,770 --> 01:11:44,159
well there are nevertheless similar

1828
01:11:47,330 --> 01:11:45,780
Aristotle didn't really have anything

1829
01:11:51,410 --> 01:11:47,340
comparable to what we're talking about

1830
01:11:53,870 --> 01:11:51,420
so it was the neoplatonics or else they

1831
01:11:56,870 --> 01:11:53,880
you know this idea of the one and then

1832
01:12:00,110 --> 01:11:56,880
you go down from the one to noose right

1833
01:12:01,669 --> 01:12:00,120
to nous I don't know how it's pronounced

1834
01:12:04,550 --> 01:12:01,679
um and then you come down from there

1835
01:12:05,810 --> 01:12:04,560
into the world now what I have what I've

1836
01:12:08,510 --> 01:12:05,820
found is that you've been liking this

1837
01:12:10,669 --> 01:12:08,520
whole this whole thing to a reality self

1838
01:12:12,350 --> 01:12:10,679
simulation which can actually be

1839
01:12:13,610 --> 01:12:12,360
mathematically in scientifically

1840
01:12:16,370 --> 01:12:13,620
described

1841
01:12:18,890 --> 01:12:16,380
okay in other words there's this this

1842
01:12:21,110 --> 01:12:18,900
emanation this series of emanations that

1843
01:12:24,229 --> 01:12:21,120
leads to what we are in this world and

1844
01:12:26,510 --> 01:12:24,239
when we die then we are retracted into

1845
01:12:28,729 --> 01:12:26,520
this bundle of emanations and then we

1846
01:12:31,430 --> 01:12:28,739
you know it may be possible to re-emerge

1847
01:12:32,689 --> 01:12:31,440
into another world the heaven hell a new

1848
01:12:34,490 --> 01:12:32,699
life

1849
01:12:35,689 --> 01:12:34,500
whatever you may call it all right but

1850
01:12:36,830 --> 01:12:35,699
there's enough structure there that I

1851
01:12:38,450 --> 01:12:36,840
think we've got some very interesting

1852
01:12:40,070 --> 01:12:38,460
possibilities

1853
01:12:42,350 --> 01:12:40,080
okay here's a set of questions that

1854
01:12:43,729 --> 01:12:42,360
comes from Charlie ifra where did the

1855
01:12:45,890 --> 01:12:43,739
assumption that Consciousness is good

1856
01:12:48,350 --> 01:12:45,900
come from where did the assumption that

1857
01:12:49,729 --> 01:12:48,360
Consciousness matters come from where do

1858
01:12:52,189 --> 01:12:49,739
the assumption that Consciousness makes

1859
01:12:53,630 --> 01:12:52,199
us special come from why don't we assume

1860
01:12:55,970 --> 01:12:53,640
that Consciousness is just something we

1861
01:12:58,610 --> 01:12:55,980
do and it's no more special than

1862
01:13:00,169 --> 01:12:58,620
eyesight or scent so I'm going to send

1863
01:13:02,570 --> 01:13:00,179
this in the chat because it's a set of

1864
01:13:04,729 --> 01:13:02,580
questions that are similar but it's

1865
01:13:06,830 --> 01:13:04,739
probably useful to refer to okay well

1866
01:13:09,290 --> 01:13:06,840
the Consciousness is basically primitive

1867
01:13:10,430 --> 01:13:09,300
okay it's a primitive property Bernardo

1868
01:13:13,490 --> 01:13:10,440
was talking earlier about the properties

1869
01:13:15,410 --> 01:13:13,500
what reality is consciousness is a

1870
01:13:17,390 --> 01:13:15,420
primitive property of reality okay it

1871
01:13:18,709 --> 01:13:17,400
has to be conscious there's got to be

1872
01:13:20,930 --> 01:13:18,719
this feedback that I was talking about

1873
01:13:22,850 --> 01:13:20,940
doing this tele feedback between past

1874
01:13:25,310 --> 01:13:22,860
and future all right that's what allows

1875
01:13:26,870 --> 01:13:25,320
us to get out of this pseudo dichotomy

1876
01:13:29,270 --> 01:13:26,880
that we're talking about so

1877
01:13:31,790 --> 01:13:29,280
Consciousness is primitive it is there

1878
01:13:33,110 --> 01:13:31,800
it is what it is nobody has to say

1879
01:13:34,669 --> 01:13:33,120
anything about it nobody has to

1880
01:13:37,790 --> 01:13:34,679
pronounce it this or make assumptions

1881
01:13:39,590 --> 01:13:37,800
about it it is what it is it's there it

1882
01:13:41,810 --> 01:13:39,600
distributes over reality in different

1883
01:13:44,030 --> 01:13:41,820
forms that are appropriate to the

1884
01:13:47,149 --> 01:13:44,040
circumstances in which under which it

1885
01:13:49,189 --> 01:13:47,159
emerges okay a tiny little particle an

1886
01:13:52,669 --> 01:13:49,199
electron has Consciousness in a certain

1887
01:13:55,250 --> 01:13:52,679
way all right and then a teller a

1888
01:13:57,470 --> 01:13:55,260
secondary an organism has Consciousness

1889
01:14:00,050 --> 01:13:57,480
in another way okay then we get up to

1890
01:14:01,790 --> 01:14:00,060
Big Brain human beings we have a higher

1891
01:14:03,890 --> 01:14:01,800
kind of self-modeling Consciousness

1892
01:14:05,209 --> 01:14:03,900
still then we get all the way up to God

1893
01:14:07,910 --> 01:14:05,219
that has all of these forms of

1894
01:14:10,250 --> 01:14:07,920
Consciousness at once right so

1895
01:14:11,870 --> 01:14:10,260
Consciousness is absolutely intrinsic to

1896
01:14:14,149 --> 01:14:11,880
the nature of the universe and we

1897
01:14:16,910 --> 01:14:14,159
needn't make any assumptions about its

1898
01:14:19,130 --> 01:14:16,920
importance or its Primacy or anything

1899
01:14:20,990 --> 01:14:19,140
else Bernard you want to tackle let me

1900
01:14:22,370 --> 01:14:21,000
tackle them one by one where did the

1901
01:14:24,770 --> 01:14:22,380
assumption that Consciousness is

1902
01:14:26,450 --> 01:14:24,780
important come from I don't know I don't

1903
01:14:28,370 --> 01:14:26,460
make that assumption I know that

1904
01:14:31,070 --> 01:14:28,380
Consciousness is it is all I have

1905
01:14:33,890 --> 01:14:31,080
ultimately so if that's not important

1906
01:14:35,810 --> 01:14:33,900
then probably nothing is which may be a

1907
01:14:37,970 --> 01:14:35,820
valid answer but I don't make that

1908
01:14:40,189 --> 01:14:37,980
assumption where did the assumption that

1909
01:14:41,510 --> 01:14:40,199
Consciousness is good come from I don't

1910
01:14:44,510 --> 01:14:41,520
know I don't make that assumption

1911
01:14:46,330 --> 01:14:44,520
Consciousness is whether it's good or

1912
01:14:49,070 --> 01:14:46,340
bad no

1913
01:14:51,709 --> 01:14:49,080
determine on a case-by-case basis I

1914
01:14:53,689 --> 01:14:51,719
think there is as many good reasons to

1915
01:14:55,669 --> 01:14:53,699
think that Consciousness has bad in it

1916
01:14:56,930 --> 01:14:55,679
as there are reasons to think that it

1917
01:14:58,850 --> 01:14:56,940
has good in it

1918
01:15:01,430 --> 01:14:58,860
uh where did the assumption that

1919
01:15:02,990 --> 01:15:01,440
Consciousness matters come from he's

1920
01:15:05,570 --> 01:15:03,000
streaming everything as if it were an

1921
01:15:07,250 --> 01:15:05,580
assumption well I don't know but if

1922
01:15:09,890 --> 01:15:07,260
conscious Consciousness doesn't matter

1923
01:15:12,410 --> 01:15:09,900
then what does because we are cooped up

1924
01:15:14,810 --> 01:15:12,420
in Consciousness at all times so if that

1925
01:15:16,610 --> 01:15:14,820
doesn't matter then nothing does

1926
01:15:18,770 --> 01:15:16,620
for where did the assumption that

1927
01:15:20,750 --> 01:15:18,780
Consciousness makes a special come from

1928
01:15:22,490 --> 01:15:20,760
I don't know I don't make that

1929
01:15:24,530 --> 01:15:22,500
assumption I don't think it makes us

1930
01:15:27,050 --> 01:15:24,540
special I think Consciousness permeates

1931
01:15:29,570 --> 01:15:27,060
the whole of existence so we are not

1932
01:15:31,370 --> 01:15:29,580
special on that account because it's

1933
01:15:33,229 --> 01:15:31,380
just something that permeates the whole

1934
01:15:35,870 --> 01:15:33,239
of existence not only us

1935
01:15:38,870 --> 01:15:35,880
and five why don't we assume that

1936
01:15:40,729 --> 01:15:38,880
Consciousness is just something we do

1937
01:15:43,250 --> 01:15:40,739
because it's not a question of

1938
01:15:46,550 --> 01:15:43,260
assumption it's a question of theorizing

1939
01:15:49,070 --> 01:15:46,560
coherently so our theories stand up to

1940
01:15:51,229 --> 01:15:49,080
reason and to the evidence so you can

1941
01:15:53,090 --> 01:15:51,239
assume that I don't know that your

1942
01:15:55,130 --> 01:15:53,100
Consciousness is the sun good luck with

1943
01:15:56,930 --> 01:15:55,140
that but it that's not the game we are

1944
01:15:58,850 --> 01:15:56,940
playing we are not playing the game of

1945
01:16:01,250 --> 01:15:58,860
arbitrary assumptions we are playing the

1946
01:16:03,410 --> 01:16:01,260
game of trying to find the most coherent

1947
01:16:07,450 --> 01:16:03,420
empirically tenable internally

1948
01:16:10,610 --> 01:16:07,460
consistent most explanatory powerful

1949
01:16:14,510 --> 01:16:10,620
narrative or model or theory about

1950
01:16:17,330 --> 01:16:14,520
what's going on and the most coherent

1951
01:16:19,550 --> 01:16:17,340
and explanatory powerful the one that

1952
01:16:21,770 --> 01:16:19,560
avoids most problems all problems

1953
01:16:24,110 --> 01:16:21,780
arguably is that Consciousness is

1954
01:16:26,149 --> 01:16:24,120
fundamental it's not an assumption it's

1955
01:16:28,550 --> 01:16:26,159
a consequence of a careful line of

1956
01:16:31,430 --> 01:16:28,560
reasoning and an investigation of the

1957
01:16:35,510 --> 01:16:34,070
and and the source of that line and the

1958
01:16:37,669 --> 01:16:35,520
source and medium of that line of

1959
01:16:39,950 --> 01:16:37,679
reasoning we should have everything you

1960
01:16:42,890 --> 01:16:39,960
said is 100 right but but it's it's not

1961
01:16:45,290 --> 01:16:42,900
just a consequence okay it is the origin

1962
01:16:46,550 --> 01:16:45,300
as well it's right there it's it's all

1963
01:16:49,010 --> 01:16:46,560
distributed throughout the entire

1964
01:16:51,770 --> 01:16:49,020
process of relation or conference

1965
01:16:54,229 --> 01:16:51,780
there's no escape from it

1966
01:16:55,790 --> 01:16:54,239
okay go ahead yeah sorry Bernardo

1967
01:16:58,010 --> 01:16:55,800
Bernardo why is it that you call your

1968
01:16:59,570 --> 01:16:58,020
theory analytical idealism what's what's

1969
01:17:01,850 --> 01:16:59,580
the difference between some other

1970
01:17:03,890 --> 01:17:01,860
account of idealism and yours there's

1971
01:17:06,110 --> 01:17:03,900
nothing new in this this stuff has been

1972
01:17:07,850 --> 01:17:06,120
put forward by many people for thousands

1973
01:17:11,390 --> 01:17:07,860
of years I think there is a perfectly

1974
01:17:13,550 --> 01:17:11,400
good word in history called idealism uh

1975
01:17:15,950 --> 01:17:13,560
that that's what I'm talking about so

1976
01:17:17,030 --> 01:17:15,960
why will I use another word but under

1977
01:17:18,890 --> 01:17:17,040
pressure

1978
01:17:20,709 --> 01:17:18,900
to differentiate what I'm talking about

1979
01:17:23,209 --> 01:17:20,719
from say

1980
01:17:24,770 --> 01:17:23,219
Barclays idealism which I think is

1981
01:17:27,290 --> 01:17:24,780
flawed

1982
01:17:31,970 --> 01:17:27,300
um I needed to add a qualifier

1983
01:17:35,930 --> 01:17:31,980
and because I arrived at idealism from

1984
01:17:38,930 --> 01:17:35,940
a a rational investigation that holds up

1985
01:17:41,390 --> 01:17:38,940
to the values of analytic philosophy the

1986
01:17:45,010 --> 01:17:41,400
philosophy that was being stated you

1987
01:17:47,750 --> 01:17:45,020
know by veteran Russell in the 1920s

1988
01:17:50,149 --> 01:17:47,760
Wittgenstein and others that's that say

1989
01:17:52,669 --> 01:17:50,159
no you have to be a conceptually

1990
01:17:54,770 --> 01:17:52,679
explicit and coherent you have to avoid

1991
01:17:57,110 --> 01:17:54,780
ambiguity you cannot be internally

1992
01:17:59,510 --> 01:17:57,120
inconsistent and you have to ground

1993
01:18:02,750 --> 01:17:59,520
everything in empirical evidence so I I

1994
01:18:05,030 --> 01:18:02,760
espouse all that I espouse the values of

1995
01:18:08,030 --> 01:18:05,040
analytic philosophy not to the detriment

1996
01:18:10,370 --> 01:18:08,040
of Continental philosophy but next to

1997
01:18:12,530 --> 01:18:10,380
those I espouse the values of analytic

1998
01:18:15,290 --> 01:18:12,540
philosophy and I defend my ideal

1999
01:18:17,930 --> 01:18:15,300
idealism in a way that can only be

2000
01:18:19,669 --> 01:18:17,940
characterized as analytical you know

2001
01:18:21,410 --> 01:18:19,679
based on the values of the analytic

2002
01:18:24,590 --> 01:18:21,420
philosophy school that's why I call it

2003
01:18:28,610 --> 01:18:24,600
analytic idealism it's it's my very best

2004
01:18:30,830 --> 01:18:28,620
effort to not come up with new words but

2005
01:18:32,630 --> 01:18:30,840
to stick to Old words so people know

2006
01:18:33,470 --> 01:18:32,640
that I'm not saying anything you at all

2007
01:18:36,350 --> 01:18:33,480
here

2008
01:18:38,030 --> 01:18:36,360
okay uh can I ask a question I mean

2009
01:18:41,450 --> 01:18:38,040
analytic basically means having to do

2010
01:18:42,649 --> 01:18:41,460
with Concepts and language so somehow in

2011
01:18:44,510 --> 01:18:42,659
other words you're talking about the

2012
01:18:47,209 --> 01:18:44,520
language you use is just more careful

2013
01:18:49,250 --> 01:18:47,219
than it is an ordinary dialogue you're

2014
01:18:50,990 --> 01:18:49,260
actually theorizing very carefully and

2015
01:18:53,030 --> 01:18:51,000
that's how language enters into this is

2016
01:18:54,470 --> 01:18:53,040
that would that be accurate that's fair

2017
01:18:56,209 --> 01:18:54,480
enough that would be the reason why

2018
01:18:58,910 --> 01:18:56,219
Russell chose the word analytic

2019
01:19:00,709 --> 01:18:58,920
philosophy back then so I'm just using

2020
01:19:03,530 --> 01:19:00,719
the word he used if he had used another

2021
01:19:04,970 --> 01:19:03,540
word I would be using that word instead

2022
01:19:08,149 --> 01:19:04,980
well then we have the kantian meaning

2023
01:19:09,950 --> 01:19:08,159
too which refers to tautology

2024
01:19:12,290 --> 01:19:09,960
and then basically your predicate is

2025
01:19:14,990 --> 01:19:12,300
implicit in your subject or vice versa

2026
01:19:17,570 --> 01:19:15,000
my usage of analytic in analytic

2027
01:19:20,930 --> 01:19:17,580
philosophy is a reference sorry my use

2028
01:19:23,030 --> 01:19:20,940
of analytic in analytic idealism is a

2029
01:19:25,790 --> 01:19:23,040
reference to analytic in analytic

2030
01:19:28,130 --> 01:19:25,800
philosophy so I'm basically linking it

2031
01:19:30,709 --> 01:19:28,140
to analytic philosophy because I make my

2032
01:19:33,110 --> 01:19:30,719
argument according to the style and

2033
01:19:35,930 --> 01:19:33,120
value system of analytic philosophy I

2034
01:19:39,709 --> 01:19:35,940
understand if they had chosen the word X

2035
01:19:42,950 --> 01:19:39,719
philosophy I would be saying X ideally

2036
01:19:45,470 --> 01:19:42,960
so we talked about this but didn't use

2037
01:19:48,110 --> 01:19:45,480
the word non-dualism and many people in

2038
01:19:49,729 --> 01:19:48,120
the non-dualist community would say that

2039
01:19:52,070 --> 01:19:49,739
love is fundamental that Consciousness

2040
01:19:53,630 --> 01:19:52,080
is fundamental but love is too and

2041
01:19:55,010 --> 01:19:53,640
somehow those are the same or somehow

2042
01:19:57,410 --> 01:19:55,020
love is more fundamental than

2043
01:20:00,169 --> 01:19:57,420
Consciousness okay

2044
01:20:03,350 --> 01:20:00,179
explain to someone as confused as myself

2045
01:20:05,450 --> 01:20:03,360
what you make of that how does that make

2046
01:20:06,709 --> 01:20:05,460
sense how can love be fundamental What

2047
01:20:09,189 --> 01:20:06,719
is love

2048
01:20:12,530 --> 01:20:09,199
Bernardo if you don't mind well I I I

2049
01:20:14,270 --> 01:20:12,540
never said that love is fundamental no

2050
01:20:16,070 --> 01:20:14,280
I'm not saying you did it I apologize if

2051
01:20:17,750 --> 01:20:16,080
I said that I'm saying some non-dualists

2052
01:20:20,030 --> 01:20:17,760
I'm sure you've heard you didn't say

2053
01:20:23,270 --> 01:20:20,040
that I'm just I'm just emphasizing it

2054
01:20:25,070 --> 01:20:23,280
for for clarity and lack of ambiguity I

2055
01:20:27,709 --> 01:20:25,080
think love is a particular pattern of

2056
01:20:30,350 --> 01:20:27,719
excitation of Consciousness fear is

2057
01:20:31,370 --> 01:20:30,360
another so if love is fundamental so is

2058
01:20:35,149 --> 01:20:31,380
fear

2059
01:20:38,510 --> 01:20:35,159
um and so is I I don't know delight and

2060
01:20:41,090 --> 01:20:38,520
and any any other emotion so from that

2061
01:20:43,189 --> 01:20:41,100
perspective I think it is subjectivity

2062
01:20:45,649 --> 01:20:43,199
that is fundamental not to the

2063
01:20:48,590 --> 01:20:45,659
particular excitation of subjectivity

2064
01:20:51,350 --> 01:20:48,600
that we describe with words such as love

2065
01:20:54,950 --> 01:20:51,360
fear and all the other emotions

2066
01:20:56,689 --> 01:20:54,960
um so I think empirically if I if I look

2067
01:20:59,930 --> 01:20:56,699
at nature

2068
01:21:02,209 --> 01:20:59,940
I don't see compelling reason to think

2069
01:21:04,149 --> 01:21:02,219
that love is somehow

2070
01:21:11,149 --> 01:21:04,159
more

2071
01:21:13,669 --> 01:21:11,159
than than evil because you see this

2072
01:21:16,010 --> 01:21:13,679
stuff all around the nature I mean

2073
01:21:19,070 --> 01:21:16,020
animals are killing each other slowly

2074
01:21:21,770 --> 01:21:19,080
and painfully so they can survive it's a

2075
01:21:24,649 --> 01:21:21,780
bloodbath volcanoes erupt and millions

2076
01:21:27,350 --> 01:21:24,659
of animals are killed in very painful

2077
01:21:30,950 --> 01:21:27,360
circumstances it's not a pretty picture

2078
01:21:33,950 --> 01:21:30,960
so I I don't particularly

2079
01:21:36,590 --> 01:21:33,960
see a reason to prioritize

2080
01:21:39,290 --> 01:21:36,600
love over over anything else I mean

2081
01:21:41,930 --> 01:21:39,300
Dante wrote about the love that moves

2082
01:21:44,930 --> 01:21:41,940
the Son and the other stars suggesting

2083
01:21:46,250 --> 01:21:44,940
that you know what what we see as stars

2084
01:21:50,090 --> 01:21:46,260
is

2085
01:21:53,030 --> 01:21:50,100
external appearance of love and that

2086
01:21:55,550 --> 01:21:53,040
stars in and of themselves experience

2087
01:21:57,950 --> 01:21:55,560
themselves as an outpouring of love that

2088
01:21:59,990 --> 01:21:57,960
may be but then black holes are the

2089
01:22:02,990 --> 01:22:00,000
opposite right because instead of

2090
01:22:05,689 --> 01:22:03,000
irradiating they suck everything in and

2091
01:22:06,490 --> 01:22:05,699
I see no reason to say that stars are

2092
01:22:08,689 --> 01:22:06,500
more

2093
01:22:11,090 --> 01:22:08,699
fundamental than black holes as a matter

2094
01:22:14,390 --> 01:22:11,100
of fact we know black holes form when

2095
01:22:17,209 --> 01:22:14,400
stars collapse into themselves

2096
01:22:19,669 --> 01:22:17,219
um so no I I no no I'm afraid I don't

2097
01:22:22,850 --> 01:22:19,679
see love as as fundamental I see

2098
01:22:25,910 --> 01:22:22,860
subjectivity phenomenal Consciousness as

2099
01:22:29,629 --> 01:22:25,920
fundamental and I would love if love

2100
01:22:32,450 --> 01:22:29,639
were fundamental I would love it

2101
01:22:34,370 --> 01:22:32,460
um but I I don't see good reasons to

2102
01:22:36,350 --> 01:22:34,380
think that it is no why would you love

2103
01:22:39,169 --> 01:22:36,360
it if it was fundamental

2104
01:22:41,050 --> 01:22:39,179
well because now we would feel all all

2105
01:22:45,169 --> 01:22:41,060
fuzzy and warm

2106
01:22:47,030 --> 01:22:45,179
and protected and safe

2107
01:22:49,430 --> 01:22:47,040
um but I don't think there is good

2108
01:22:51,050 --> 01:22:49,440
reason to think that I think

2109
01:22:53,090 --> 01:22:51,060
what

2110
01:22:55,070 --> 01:22:53,100
and now I'm speculating and I'm

2111
01:22:57,950 --> 01:22:55,080
speculating without Authority here so

2112
01:23:00,649 --> 01:22:57,960
take it with a with a bag of salt I

2113
01:23:02,270 --> 01:23:00,659
think what some spiritual teachers I

2114
01:23:05,750 --> 01:23:02,280
think what motivates them to say that

2115
01:23:09,410 --> 01:23:05,760
love is fundamental is that um there is

2116
01:23:11,410 --> 01:23:09,420
a phase during meditation or during a

2117
01:23:15,250 --> 01:23:11,420
psychedelic experience

2118
01:23:17,149 --> 01:23:15,260
you pass through a threshold

2119
01:23:20,450 --> 01:23:17,159
right around

2120
01:23:23,990 --> 01:23:20,460
the ego dissolution phase when you sort

2121
01:23:27,649 --> 01:23:24,000
of shed personal identity there's a lot

2122
01:23:29,649 --> 01:23:27,659
of fear with that but then you land tend

2123
01:23:32,750 --> 01:23:29,659
to to land in a place for a little while

2124
01:23:34,669 --> 01:23:32,760
where you sort of remember

2125
01:23:36,649 --> 01:23:34,679
and what you remember I can't put in

2126
01:23:38,810 --> 01:23:36,659
English I can't put in any there are no

2127
01:23:40,910 --> 01:23:38,820
words for what you remember so I can't

2128
01:23:44,410 --> 01:23:40,920
say but you remember and that

2129
01:23:47,870 --> 01:23:44,420
remembrance feel like a reconnection

2130
01:23:49,550 --> 01:23:47,880
with your own umbilical cord with your

2131
01:23:53,270 --> 01:23:49,560
own home your own

2132
01:23:55,490 --> 01:23:53,280
source and it feels very warm and loving

2133
01:23:57,229 --> 01:23:55,500
that remembrance that that reconnection

2134
01:24:01,729 --> 01:23:57,239
with your roots

2135
01:24:05,030 --> 01:24:01,739
but is a transitory phase uh if if you

2136
01:24:07,610 --> 01:24:05,040
persist in that then even that is shared

2137
01:24:10,129 --> 01:24:07,620
even that feeling of Love fuzzy coziness

2138
01:24:14,149 --> 01:24:10,139
you know remembrance back home even that

2139
01:24:16,189 --> 01:24:14,159
is shadowy uh as just one more phase of

2140
01:24:17,750 --> 01:24:16,199
experience but nothing fundamental and

2141
01:24:19,550 --> 01:24:17,760
then you go somewhere else

2142
01:24:22,430 --> 01:24:19,560
and I'm not going to talk about that

2143
01:24:26,750 --> 01:24:22,440
somewhere else but I can imagine that if

2144
01:24:29,810 --> 01:24:26,760
you have not visited the deeper levels

2145
01:24:32,209 --> 01:24:29,820
in the Palace of mind you just went one

2146
01:24:34,370 --> 01:24:32,219
level lower one or two level lower then

2147
01:24:36,890 --> 01:24:34,380
you would say well I found love there so

2148
01:24:39,169 --> 01:24:36,900
Love Is Fundamental I I can clearly see

2149
01:24:41,510 --> 01:24:39,179
that happening but then I would think

2150
01:24:44,270 --> 01:24:41,520
arrogantly maybe that well we just

2151
01:24:46,430 --> 01:24:44,280
haven't gone deep enough because below

2152
01:24:48,830 --> 01:24:46,440
that there is stuff that you wouldn't

2153
01:24:50,390 --> 01:24:48,840
call love

2154
01:24:51,950 --> 01:24:50,400
Chris would it be all right if I asked

2155
01:24:53,629 --> 01:24:51,960
Bernardo one more question and then if

2156
01:24:55,790 --> 01:24:53,639
you want if there's anything that comes

2157
01:24:59,030 --> 01:24:55,800
to mind just take a note and then

2158
01:25:00,470 --> 01:24:59,040
so that's fun okay great so Bernardo in

2159
01:25:03,350 --> 01:25:00,480
some of the conferences I'm sure that

2160
01:25:05,810 --> 01:25:03,360
you've attended on spirituality and

2161
01:25:07,370 --> 01:25:05,820
non-dualism

2162
01:25:08,510 --> 01:25:07,380
there seems to be a special place for

2163
01:25:10,669 --> 01:25:08,520
love and there seems to be a special

2164
01:25:12,470 --> 01:25:10,679
place for fear namely that one is to

2165
01:25:14,450 --> 01:25:12,480
shed fear and that almost all of

2166
01:25:17,990 --> 01:25:14,460
suffering if not all of suffering comes

2167
01:25:20,629 --> 01:25:18,000
from fear and for me just to get my

2168
01:25:22,310 --> 01:25:20,639
point of view across it doesn't seem

2169
01:25:23,930 --> 01:25:22,320
completely correct unless they're using

2170
01:25:26,450 --> 01:25:23,940
a different definition of fear because

2171
01:25:28,189 --> 01:25:26,460
there are people who have a part of

2172
01:25:29,810 --> 01:25:28,199
their brain that's that they lack

2173
01:25:32,330 --> 01:25:29,820
there's a

2174
01:25:34,430 --> 01:25:32,340
their brain they don't actually

2175
01:25:36,530 --> 01:25:34,440
experience fear and it's deleterious

2176
01:25:38,149 --> 01:25:36,540
it's not good for them they stand too

2177
01:25:40,430 --> 01:25:38,159
close to people they are more likely to

2178
01:25:42,229 --> 01:25:40,440
get into fights they have to be watched

2179
01:25:44,510 --> 01:25:42,239
over and there's also sociopathy which

2180
01:25:47,270 --> 01:25:44,520
is related to a lack of fear but social

2181
01:25:49,430 --> 01:25:47,280
fear so it doesn't seem to me that one

2182
01:25:52,129 --> 01:25:49,440
should just shed all of one's fear in

2183
01:25:54,830 --> 01:25:52,139
order to live more peaceably well maybe

2184
01:25:56,689 --> 01:25:54,840
in order to live more peaceably but that

2185
01:25:58,310 --> 01:25:56,699
existence doesn't persist for a while

2186
01:25:59,870 --> 01:25:58,320
and it also doesn't seem to be good for

2187
01:26:02,330 --> 01:25:59,880
the other people around you

2188
01:26:04,669 --> 01:26:02,340
either way that's my thoughts on it

2189
01:26:05,990 --> 01:26:04,679
do you see the same distinction between

2190
01:26:09,110 --> 01:26:06,000
love and fear like there's a special

2191
01:26:11,209 --> 01:26:09,120
place for fear namely we should shed it

2192
01:26:13,430 --> 01:26:11,219
and what are your thoughts on that

2193
01:26:15,709 --> 01:26:13,440
so I'll give you a personal opinion this

2194
01:26:17,930 --> 01:26:15,719
this is not grounded on my work as a

2195
01:26:19,850 --> 01:26:17,940
philosopher or my previous work as a

2196
01:26:21,410 --> 01:26:19,860
scientist so I'm not sure my opinion

2197
01:26:22,790 --> 01:26:21,420
should count more than anybody else's

2198
01:26:25,490 --> 01:26:22,800
opinion

2199
01:26:27,229 --> 01:26:25,500
um but I sympathize with what you said I

2200
01:26:29,930 --> 01:26:27,239
think there is a place for fear there is

2201
01:26:32,149 --> 01:26:29,940
a reason we've evolved to feel fearful I

2202
01:26:35,209 --> 01:26:32,159
mean in certain circumstances it is

2203
01:26:38,209 --> 01:26:35,219
healthy it's it helps preserve your your

2204
01:26:40,550 --> 01:26:38,219
own safety I think what

2205
01:26:42,610 --> 01:26:40,560
what may be

2206
01:26:45,410 --> 01:26:42,620
um is trying to be

2207
01:26:48,229 --> 01:26:45,420
expressed in those conferences is that

2208
01:26:50,870 --> 01:26:48,239
you shouldn't be in the grip of fear

2209
01:26:53,689 --> 01:26:50,880
fear shouldn't control your life and

2210
01:26:56,689 --> 01:26:53,699
unfortunately that's what happens a lot

2211
01:26:59,090 --> 01:26:56,699
in our civilization that fear instead of

2212
01:27:01,729 --> 01:26:59,100
being just one more ingredient in this

2213
01:27:04,070 --> 01:27:01,739
great Melting Pot of emotions that we

2214
01:27:07,189 --> 01:27:04,080
carry along through life that fear

2215
01:27:08,750 --> 01:27:07,199
becomes the dominating force and I have

2216
01:27:11,209 --> 01:27:08,760
experience with that I have suffered

2217
01:27:13,310 --> 01:27:11,219
from anxiety and fear can make your

2218
01:27:15,470 --> 01:27:13,320
world very small it can make you blind

2219
01:27:17,930 --> 01:27:15,480
to everything else it can destroy your

2220
01:27:20,209 --> 01:27:17,940
ability to empathize it can destroy your

2221
01:27:23,030 --> 01:27:20,219
ability to tune into what's happening

2222
01:27:25,550 --> 01:27:23,040
around you destroys your ability to

2223
01:27:27,410 --> 01:27:25,560
enjoy the present moment because your

2224
01:27:29,629 --> 01:27:27,420
mind is always in that narrative making

2225
01:27:33,470 --> 01:27:29,639
of what might happen that could be very

2226
01:27:36,530 --> 01:27:33,480
bad for you so not surrendering control

2227
01:27:39,530 --> 01:27:36,540
to fear I think is important but

2228
01:27:42,350 --> 01:27:39,540
eliminating fear altogether I think

2229
01:27:45,410 --> 01:27:42,360
that's like cutting a limb it's it's

2230
01:27:48,470 --> 01:27:45,420
it's uh it's taking away a part of your

2231
01:27:50,450 --> 01:27:48,480
own Humanity if you become unable to

2232
01:27:52,430 --> 01:27:50,460
feel fear how will you empathize with

2233
01:27:55,129 --> 01:27:52,440
the ukrainians now so you know

2234
01:27:56,689 --> 01:27:55,139
surrendering to fear eliminates empathy

2235
01:27:58,970 --> 01:27:56,699
but destroying fear completely

2236
01:28:01,370 --> 01:27:58,980
eliminates empathy as well because you

2237
01:28:03,950 --> 01:28:01,380
become unable to relate to what other

2238
01:28:06,229 --> 01:28:03,960
people are going through and you become

2239
01:28:08,030 --> 01:28:06,239
less human and and I don't think that's

2240
01:28:12,410 --> 01:28:08,040
the game to play I think the game to

2241
01:28:15,649 --> 01:28:12,420
play is to mature our own Humanity to

2242
01:28:17,510 --> 01:28:15,659
its full and fear is certainly an

2243
01:28:21,649 --> 01:28:17,520
ingredient of that there is nothing I

2244
01:28:23,450 --> 01:28:21,659
think a priori bad about fear the only

2245
01:28:26,270 --> 01:28:23,460
bad thing is when you have an imbalance

2246
01:28:30,410 --> 01:28:26,280
and nothing balance can be an excess of

2247
01:28:34,430 --> 01:28:30,420
fear or even a lack of fear I think the

2248
01:28:36,350 --> 01:28:34,440
point is is a balance and I see I I

2249
01:28:39,410 --> 01:28:36,360
understand these conferences when they

2250
01:28:41,689 --> 01:28:39,420
aim they put emphasis on reducing fear

2251
01:28:44,810 --> 01:28:41,699
because in our civilization in our

2252
01:28:47,149 --> 01:28:44,820
society today most of the times we are

2253
01:28:49,129 --> 01:28:47,159
not in balance and the imbalance is

2254
01:28:50,930 --> 01:28:49,139
precisely an excess of fear so that's

2255
01:28:53,510 --> 01:28:50,940
where you put the emphasis you try to

2256
01:28:56,629 --> 01:28:53,520
reduce that which is excessive but I

2257
01:28:58,790 --> 01:28:56,639
don't think it should be extrapolated to

2258
01:29:01,510 --> 01:28:58,800
the point of rooting out fear altogether

2259
01:29:04,010 --> 01:29:01,520
then you're not human you will be a

2260
01:29:06,169 --> 01:29:04,020
mutilated human being that's not

2261
01:29:07,970 --> 01:29:06,179
something to desire at least I don't I

2262
01:29:10,850 --> 01:29:07,980
don't desire that

2263
01:29:12,229 --> 01:29:10,860
okay so Chris there's plenty that was

2264
01:29:13,970 --> 01:29:12,239
said and if you want to comment on any

2265
01:29:15,590 --> 01:29:13,980
of it please do I'll restate the

2266
01:29:17,390 --> 01:29:15,600
original question which is essentially

2267
01:29:20,810 --> 01:29:17,400
well what is love and what's its

2268
01:29:23,649 --> 01:29:20,820
relationship to what's fundamental

2269
01:29:26,570 --> 01:29:23,659
well love it's all about uh

2270
01:29:29,209 --> 01:29:26,580
identification and identity obviously

2271
01:29:31,790 --> 01:29:29,219
reality identifies with itself there's

2272
01:29:34,129 --> 01:29:31,800
no not necessarily any emotion attached

2273
01:29:37,430 --> 01:29:34,139
to that but in order to make this work

2274
01:29:40,550 --> 01:29:37,440
in in the world uh reality configures

2275
01:29:42,890 --> 01:29:40,560
itself as syntax there's a kind of

2276
01:29:45,649 --> 01:29:42,900
syntax in the metaformal system called

2277
01:29:48,350 --> 01:29:45,659
the ETS for emotelic syntax

2278
01:29:50,209 --> 01:29:48,360
emotions like fear and love can form you

2279
01:29:52,250 --> 01:29:50,219
of a need that's basically what they do

2280
01:29:55,010 --> 01:29:52,260
they're telling you there's a deficit of

2281
01:29:56,629 --> 01:29:55,020
utility in your life and that you need

2282
01:29:59,570 --> 01:29:56,639
to fill it and this is what causes you

2283
01:30:01,430 --> 01:29:59,580
to configure yourself as a tell-on and

2284
01:30:02,930 --> 01:30:01,440
then affect causation

2285
01:30:05,330 --> 01:30:02,940
all right until it brings together

2286
01:30:07,310 --> 01:30:05,340
causation in certain ways by certain

2287
01:30:09,110 --> 01:30:07,320
mechanisms and this is actually what

2288
01:30:12,110 --> 01:30:09,120
happens there is no way to do without

2289
01:30:13,970 --> 01:30:12,120
things like fear and love as far as love

2290
01:30:16,070 --> 01:30:13,980
is concerned the love between you two

2291
01:30:17,390 --> 01:30:16,080
human beings is concerned they love each

2292
01:30:19,729 --> 01:30:17,400
other and they feel that wonderful

2293
01:30:22,490 --> 01:30:19,739
emotion because of the ETS those those

2294
01:30:25,070 --> 01:30:22,500
feelings the moods they come out of the

2295
01:30:26,930 --> 01:30:25,080
this this particular kind of of this

2296
01:30:29,570 --> 01:30:26,940
quality that has been put in your mind

2297
01:30:31,790 --> 01:30:29,580
by reality itself so that it can survive

2298
01:30:33,770 --> 01:30:31,800
so it can renew its identity over and

2299
01:30:35,689 --> 01:30:33,780
over and over again two people who are

2300
01:30:38,149 --> 01:30:35,699
on love are basically they want to unite

2301
01:30:40,610 --> 01:30:38,159
they want to merge their identities in

2302
01:30:43,310 --> 01:30:40,620
one destiny one shared Destiny that's

2303
01:30:45,350 --> 01:30:43,320
what love is so love starts out as a as

2304
01:30:48,470 --> 01:30:45,360
an extremely fundamental property of

2305
01:30:52,070 --> 01:30:48,480
reality then creates the ETS which then

2306
01:30:54,290 --> 01:30:52,080
causes us to behave in certain ways that

2307
01:30:56,629 --> 01:30:54,300
cause us to unite our Destinies and do

2308
01:30:59,090 --> 01:30:56,639
things like Marian have children which

2309
01:31:02,990 --> 01:30:59,100
reality needs in order to renew the

2310
01:31:05,930 --> 01:31:03,000
cycle of Life what's the ETS

2311
01:31:08,270 --> 01:31:05,940
the emotec syntax

2312
01:31:10,490 --> 01:31:08,280
the most standing for emotion and teleco

2313
01:31:12,590 --> 01:31:10,500
course meaning basically emotion you

2314
01:31:14,510 --> 01:31:12,600
experience emotions because they are

2315
01:31:16,790 --> 01:31:14,520
usually most emotions because they are

2316
01:31:19,669 --> 01:31:16,800
informing you of some kind of need you

2317
01:31:22,189 --> 01:31:19,679
have a need that their fear means the

2318
01:31:24,530 --> 01:31:22,199
need to fight fight or flee okay love

2319
01:31:28,010 --> 01:31:24,540
means the need to you know to care for

2320
01:31:30,590 --> 01:31:28,020
or nurture and procreate okay and and

2321
01:31:32,689 --> 01:31:30,600
you can attach this to to virtually

2322
01:31:36,169 --> 01:31:32,699
anything basically this is the part of

2323
01:31:38,870 --> 01:31:36,179
our minds that tells us what we need and

2324
01:31:40,550 --> 01:31:38,880
then we configure ourselves telegram by

2325
01:31:42,830 --> 01:31:40,560
means of teleconcursion or

2326
01:31:44,930 --> 01:31:42,840
teleconization configure ourselves to

2327
01:31:46,490 --> 01:31:44,940
fulfill those needs and it's like a

2328
01:31:48,709 --> 01:31:46,500
charge system on the one hand you've got

2329
01:31:50,629 --> 01:31:48,719
negative charge filling that need is

2330
01:31:52,850 --> 01:31:50,639
amounts to a positive charge so you've

2331
01:31:55,310 --> 01:31:52,860
got the duality of charges and that's

2332
01:31:57,649 --> 01:31:55,320
the way things work in the CT right

2333
01:31:58,850 --> 01:31:57,659
there's utility deficit and then there's

2334
01:32:01,850 --> 01:31:58,860
utility

2335
01:32:03,950 --> 01:32:01,860
so that's what the the ETS is just that

2336
01:32:06,169 --> 01:32:03,960
part of your mind that that syntactic

2337
01:32:08,090 --> 01:32:06,179
module that tells you

2338
01:32:10,070 --> 01:32:08,100
what you should be doing I mean it makes

2339
01:32:13,250 --> 01:32:10,080
you feel very you know

2340
01:32:15,470 --> 01:32:13,260
fight uh flee

2341
01:32:17,330 --> 01:32:15,480
um you know go up and ask that girl for

2342
01:32:19,189 --> 01:32:17,340
a date you know this is the kind of

2343
01:32:21,590 --> 01:32:19,199
thing that's that it's that it's telling

2344
01:32:24,830 --> 01:32:21,600
you a pain I've got to jerk my hand away

2345
01:32:26,810 --> 01:32:24,840
from the flame okay all right and then

2346
01:32:29,149 --> 01:32:26,820
you've got you've got fulfillment you've

2347
01:32:32,570 --> 01:32:29,159
got emotions of fulfillment which then

2348
01:32:35,450 --> 01:32:32,580
tell where they reinforce this cycle of

2349
01:32:38,450 --> 01:32:35,460
charge and and uh you know of deficit

2350
01:32:40,430 --> 01:32:38,460
and fulfillment okay when you feel happy

2351
01:32:43,129 --> 01:32:40,440
it means that you've just performed that

2352
01:32:45,649 --> 01:32:43,139
that thing properly you've actually just

2353
01:32:48,050 --> 01:32:45,659
closed that Loop okay and it reinforces

2354
01:32:49,729 --> 01:32:48,060
you to do the same thing in the future

2355
01:32:51,530 --> 01:32:49,739
and that's our reality more or less

2356
01:32:55,070 --> 01:32:51,540
conditions itself

2357
01:33:02,570 --> 01:32:57,590
Chris can you give me an example of a

2358
01:33:04,850 --> 01:33:02,580
time when you felt fear for weeks so not

2359
01:33:07,430 --> 01:33:04,860
just momentary fear particularly with

2360
01:33:09,649 --> 01:33:07,440
regard to something existential so this

2361
01:33:12,229 --> 01:33:09,659
is a personal question I want to know

2362
01:33:13,729 --> 01:33:12,239
how is it that you overcame some dread

2363
01:33:14,689 --> 01:33:13,739
and then Bernardo similarly you

2364
01:33:16,070 --> 01:33:14,699
mentioned that you had problems with

2365
01:33:18,649 --> 01:33:16,080
anxiety in the past

2366
01:33:20,510 --> 01:33:18,659
probably still do but a specific problem

2367
01:33:23,450 --> 01:33:20,520
is likely in your mind

2368
01:33:25,729 --> 01:33:23,460
well I I can't say that I have felt

2369
01:33:27,950 --> 01:33:25,739
prolonged dread in the past bouts of

2370
01:33:29,990 --> 01:33:27,960
dread of course we all do but in terms

2371
01:33:33,290 --> 01:33:30,000
of prolonged dread I've been you know

2372
01:33:34,729 --> 01:33:33,300
most mercifully free of that kind of I

2373
01:33:37,610 --> 01:33:34,739
have felt you know things protracted

2374
01:33:40,310 --> 01:33:37,620
uncomfortable feelings like loneliness

2375
01:33:42,530 --> 01:33:40,320
you know I mean you know I you know feel

2376
01:33:45,110 --> 01:33:42,540
feel lonely you know I cope with those

2377
01:33:47,450 --> 01:33:45,120
things by basically turning my mind in

2378
01:33:48,890 --> 01:33:47,460
another Direction in a direction that I

2379
01:33:50,990 --> 01:33:48,900
know could be fulfilled if there's no

2380
01:33:53,090 --> 01:33:51,000
one around like that you know I could be

2381
01:33:54,590 --> 01:33:53,100
you know that could be my companion and

2382
01:33:56,629 --> 01:33:54,600
I'm going to have to remain lonely I

2383
01:33:58,430 --> 01:33:56,639
make sure that I use my time well by

2384
01:34:01,010 --> 01:33:58,440
immersing myself in something that makes

2385
01:34:03,530 --> 01:34:01,020
me feel better distracting myself from

2386
01:34:05,570 --> 01:34:03,540
that need which cannot yet be fulfilled

2387
01:34:07,370 --> 01:34:05,580
and kind of transferring that into the

2388
01:34:10,189 --> 01:34:07,380
future okay I will solve this problem

2389
01:34:11,450 --> 01:34:10,199
later but now I'm going to do what needs

2390
01:34:14,990 --> 01:34:11,460
doing

2391
01:34:20,510 --> 01:34:17,570
Bernardo

2392
01:34:24,590 --> 01:34:20,520
I have experienced dread for over a

2393
01:34:27,110 --> 01:34:24,600
decade and pretty much continuously

2394
01:34:30,709 --> 01:34:27,120
um a lot of My Philosophy work has been

2395
01:34:32,390 --> 01:34:30,719
a sort of an Alchemy of uh

2396
01:34:35,629 --> 01:34:32,400
um translating

2397
01:34:38,750 --> 01:34:35,639
that undesired undesirable energy of

2398
01:34:40,790 --> 01:34:38,760
dread into something positive Nietzsche

2399
01:34:43,310 --> 01:34:40,800
talked about this being the job of

2400
01:34:46,490 --> 01:34:43,320
philosophers turning everything we are

2401
01:34:49,790 --> 01:34:46,500
everything we fear into love and Flame

2402
01:34:53,030 --> 01:34:49,800
as we put it I said that was the job of

2403
01:34:55,070 --> 01:34:53,040
philosophy and I think he he was right

2404
01:34:59,810 --> 01:34:55,080
um for me it started

2405
01:35:03,229 --> 01:34:59,820
um in my mid-30s when I was 34 I had

2406
01:35:05,390 --> 01:35:03,239
achieved everything that I set myself to

2407
01:35:07,850 --> 01:35:05,400
achieve when I was 12 and when I was 12

2408
01:35:09,290 --> 01:35:07,860
my father died and I made a list of

2409
01:35:11,990 --> 01:35:09,300
everything I wanted to achieve in my

2410
01:35:14,750 --> 01:35:12,000
life one day I woke up at 34 and I

2411
01:35:18,229 --> 01:35:14,760
realized that it everything sticked it's

2412
01:35:21,229 --> 01:35:18,239
all there and I thought I've arrived I'm

2413
01:35:23,570 --> 01:35:21,239
in control I have control of the world

2414
01:35:25,910 --> 01:35:23,580
because I had external control of the

2415
01:35:28,129 --> 01:35:25,920
world I had a good job I had sufficient

2416
01:35:30,649 --> 01:35:28,139
money I had the house I always wanted to

2417
01:35:32,629 --> 01:35:30,659
have I was married to my youth

2418
01:35:33,290 --> 01:35:32,639
sweetheart

2419
01:35:35,750 --> 01:35:33,300
um

2420
01:35:38,030 --> 01:35:35,760
and then in life has a funny way to

2421
01:35:40,910 --> 01:35:38,040
confront you with your own very

2422
01:35:43,010 --> 01:35:40,920
very quickly so it's it didn't take

2423
01:35:46,310 --> 01:35:43,020
weeks of that feeling I am in control

2424
01:35:47,330 --> 01:35:46,320
for me to find a nodule in my wife's

2425
01:35:50,090 --> 01:35:47,340
breast

2426
01:35:51,950 --> 01:35:50,100
which took doctors two weeks to rule out

2427
01:35:54,709 --> 01:35:51,960
as cancer

2428
01:35:57,129 --> 01:35:54,719
and in those two weeks I thought

2429
01:36:00,229 --> 01:35:57,139
I'm not in control at all

2430
01:36:02,030 --> 01:36:00,239
my wife can get sick and die I can get

2431
01:36:04,729 --> 01:36:02,040
sick and die everything that I find

2432
01:36:07,310 --> 01:36:04,739
important all those people can no I have

2433
01:36:12,070 --> 01:36:07,320
no control over my own body let alone

2434
01:36:16,490 --> 01:36:12,080
the world and that realization was was

2435
01:36:19,189 --> 01:36:16,500
terrible to me I internalized that into

2436
01:36:21,530 --> 01:36:19,199
health anxiety for myself health anxiety

2437
01:36:26,390 --> 01:36:21,540
for everybody that I cared about

2438
01:36:28,790 --> 01:36:26,400
and um it took well over 10 years for

2439
01:36:32,930 --> 01:36:28,800
that claustrophobic feeling

2440
01:36:35,570 --> 01:36:32,940
to to sort of dissipate and I I wish I

2441
01:36:37,790 --> 01:36:35,580
would have you know the seven steps to

2442
01:36:40,430 --> 01:36:37,800
getting rid of that

2443
01:36:41,990 --> 01:36:40,440
um uh two things happened to me prior to

2444
01:36:43,370 --> 01:36:42,000
it dissipating

2445
01:36:46,490 --> 01:36:43,380
one

2446
01:36:48,950 --> 01:36:46,500
I accepted that it would never go away

2447
01:36:51,709 --> 01:36:48,960
which is amazing now when you truly

2448
01:36:53,510 --> 01:36:51,719
accept in your heart of hearts that okay

2449
01:36:55,370 --> 01:36:53,520
this is not something I can fight this

2450
01:36:58,189 --> 01:36:55,380
is not a problem I can solve I have

2451
01:37:00,490 --> 01:36:58,199
tried everything for over 10 years every

2452
01:37:03,530 --> 01:37:00,500
recipe in the book everything

2453
01:37:06,050 --> 01:37:03,540
man didn't solve it so I might have to

2454
01:37:08,330 --> 01:37:06,060
live with it and I truly accepted that

2455
01:37:09,950 --> 01:37:08,340
in the core of my being that I will live

2456
01:37:12,590 --> 01:37:09,960
with anxiety

2457
01:37:15,229 --> 01:37:12,600
that was one precursor the other

2458
01:37:16,189 --> 01:37:15,239
precursor was reconnecting with my child

2459
01:37:21,890 --> 01:37:16,199
self

2460
01:37:22,570 --> 01:37:21,900
and I suddenly instantly turned into an

2461
01:37:26,750 --> 01:37:22,580
adult

2462
01:37:29,330 --> 01:37:26,760
reconnecting with that way of being in

2463
01:37:31,250 --> 01:37:29,340
the world that is when you're not trying

2464
01:37:34,430 --> 01:37:31,260
to control the world when you are in

2465
01:37:35,930 --> 01:37:34,440
full communion with the world you're not

2466
01:37:37,970 --> 01:37:35,940
trying to control your destiny you're

2467
01:37:40,910 --> 01:37:37,980
not thinking about the future you don't

2468
01:37:42,410 --> 01:37:40,920
have lists about things that need to be

2469
01:37:44,570 --> 01:37:42,420
achieved

2470
01:37:47,390 --> 01:37:44,580
um you're just there for the world

2471
01:37:49,790 --> 01:37:47,400
enjoying the moment and you're taken by

2472
01:37:53,030 --> 01:37:49,800
the wind with the flow of life and

2473
01:37:54,950 --> 01:37:53,040
reconnecting with that which to me had

2474
01:37:57,890 --> 01:37:54,960
had to do with know my passion for

2475
01:37:59,990 --> 01:37:57,900
computers and I started designing my own

2476
01:38:01,490 --> 01:38:00,000
computers that what I always wanted to

2477
01:38:03,709 --> 01:38:01,500
do when I was a kid and I went to

2478
01:38:05,689 --> 01:38:03,719
University at 17 and I designed

2479
01:38:08,050 --> 01:38:05,699
computers for others but never designed

2480
01:38:12,050 --> 01:38:08,060
my own computer so I started doing that

2481
01:38:14,510 --> 01:38:12,060
and somewhere in the course of two years

2482
01:38:16,189 --> 01:38:14,520
that conjunction of

2483
01:38:18,050 --> 01:38:16,199
accepting fear

2484
01:38:20,270 --> 01:38:18,060
accepting that it would never go away

2485
01:38:23,810 --> 01:38:20,280
that it's not a problem to be solved

2486
01:38:26,510 --> 01:38:23,820
and reconnecting with my child self

2487
01:38:29,270 --> 01:38:26,520
somehow don't tell me I cannot tell you

2488
01:38:30,950 --> 01:38:29,280
how or when one day I woke up and I

2489
01:38:32,390 --> 01:38:30,960
looked back over the previous two years

2490
01:38:35,510 --> 01:38:32,400
and I realized

2491
01:38:38,330 --> 01:38:35,520
wow I haven't been anxious I still have

2492
01:38:39,290 --> 01:38:38,340
you know some crisis here and there but

2493
01:38:43,010 --> 01:38:39,300
uh

2494
01:38:46,669 --> 01:38:43,020
I tuned into what I like to call the the

2495
01:38:48,530 --> 01:38:46,679
movements of being personal in my mind

2496
01:38:49,790 --> 01:38:48,540
um sometimes I personalize it and I call

2497
01:38:51,590 --> 01:38:49,800
it the diamond

2498
01:38:55,669 --> 01:38:51,600
and I say you know my life now is about

2499
01:38:57,890 --> 01:38:55,679
doing the diamonds uh bidding

2500
01:39:00,649 --> 01:38:57,900
um my life's not about me anymore and

2501
01:39:04,030 --> 01:39:00,659
that's sort of that acceptance that my

2502
01:39:06,410 --> 01:39:04,040
life is not about me that I'm just here

2503
01:39:08,689 --> 01:39:06,420
riding a wave Nature's trying to do

2504
01:39:11,270 --> 01:39:08,699
something through me and my only choice

2505
01:39:13,970 --> 01:39:11,280
is do I resist that or do I not

2506
01:39:17,330 --> 01:39:13,980
and naturally and very spontaneously

2507
01:39:19,970 --> 01:39:17,340
making the choice to not resist it means

2508
01:39:21,830 --> 01:39:19,980
that you you surrender control

2509
01:39:23,510 --> 01:39:21,840
so if you ask me where do I want to be

2510
01:39:26,090 --> 01:39:23,520
in five years I would just laugh at your

2511
01:39:27,649 --> 01:39:26,100
face I have no idea and I have no need

2512
01:39:29,390 --> 01:39:27,659
to know

2513
01:39:32,090 --> 01:39:29,400
um I will be where I will be in five

2514
01:39:34,430 --> 01:39:32,100
years so long as I keep in tune with the

2515
01:39:36,590 --> 01:39:34,440
movements of the impersonal within me

2516
01:39:38,990 --> 01:39:36,600
and I'm completely relaxed with that and

2517
01:39:41,510 --> 01:39:39,000
that surrender of control

2518
01:39:44,629 --> 01:39:41,520
was a surrender of fear

2519
01:39:46,550 --> 01:39:44,639
because if you don't feel that you need

2520
01:39:49,609 --> 01:39:46,560
to be in control

2521
01:39:52,550 --> 01:39:49,619
fear does not have fertile ground to to

2522
01:39:54,890 --> 01:39:52,560
grow and and take hold because you're

2523
01:39:57,410 --> 01:39:54,900
not trying to be in control

2524
01:39:59,810 --> 01:39:57,420
um there is a kind of a an acceptance of

2525
01:40:01,370 --> 01:39:59,820
the impersonal an acceptance that you're

2526
01:40:03,950 --> 01:40:01,380
just a part of nature it's like that

2527
01:40:05,990 --> 01:40:03,960
Blossom of my apple tree telling itself

2528
01:40:07,490 --> 01:40:06,000
where do I want to be in five days and

2529
01:40:09,890 --> 01:40:07,500
it's ridiculous it's not about the

2530
01:40:12,410 --> 01:40:09,900
blossom it's not even about the tree

2531
01:40:14,750 --> 01:40:12,420
it's about the whole flow of Nature and

2532
01:40:16,609 --> 01:40:14,760
when you internalize that Insight at

2533
01:40:18,770 --> 01:40:16,619
least for me when I internalize that

2534
01:40:20,810 --> 01:40:18,780
Insight not because I tried not because

2535
01:40:25,129 --> 01:40:20,820
I had a plan to internalize it it just

2536
01:40:27,830 --> 01:40:25,139
happened I I realized it with hindsight

2537
01:40:31,129 --> 01:40:27,840
you know just by looking back I realized

2538
01:40:32,689 --> 01:40:31,139
this Dynamic played out it happened I

2539
01:40:34,729 --> 01:40:32,699
somehow let go

2540
01:40:37,490 --> 01:40:34,739
of the need to control of the need to

2541
01:40:39,410 --> 01:40:37,500
plan I surrendered into the movements of

2542
01:40:43,189 --> 01:40:39,420
the impersonal

2543
01:40:45,109 --> 01:40:43,199
and I'm fine I'm surprisingly fine I

2544
01:40:47,810 --> 01:40:45,119
still have horrible tinnitus in both

2545
01:40:50,270 --> 01:40:47,820
years I hear dentists drill in both my

2546
01:40:53,330 --> 01:40:50,280
ears very loud constantly 24 hours a day

2547
01:40:54,470 --> 01:40:53,340
thought about suicide twice three and a

2548
01:40:57,590 --> 01:40:54,480
half years ago

2549
01:40:59,149 --> 01:40:57,600
I mean peace with that even how did this

2550
01:41:01,129 --> 01:40:59,159
happen I have no idea how this happened

2551
01:41:02,930 --> 01:41:01,139
I have no recipes I couldn't tell you

2552
01:41:06,410 --> 01:41:02,940
follow these steps I can only tell you

2553
01:41:08,209 --> 01:41:06,420
what the precursors for me were and I

2554
01:41:11,390 --> 01:41:08,219
still experience fear and dread

2555
01:41:15,950 --> 01:41:11,400
occasionally but it's nowhere near that

2556
01:41:20,990 --> 01:41:15,960
ride I used to have now the bad news is

2557
01:41:23,090 --> 01:41:21,000
I feel a lot less energy to write

2558
01:41:25,669 --> 01:41:23,100
um I feel a lot less need to write it's

2559
01:41:29,450 --> 01:41:25,679
like the diamond used my dread

2560
01:41:30,910 --> 01:41:29,460
to Corral me into doing its bidding and

2561
01:41:34,910 --> 01:41:30,920
now that it

2562
01:41:37,189 --> 01:41:34,920
can't use it anymore I I'm much much

2563
01:41:38,930 --> 01:41:37,199
more in the now

2564
01:41:40,970 --> 01:41:38,940
um if you ask me what my intuition

2565
01:41:43,850 --> 01:41:40,980
points to my intuition is that I will

2566
01:41:45,950 --> 01:41:43,860
still play with computers old computers

2567
01:41:49,490 --> 01:41:45,960
and designing my own computers for

2568
01:41:51,649 --> 01:41:49,500
another year or two to exhaust that that

2569
01:41:54,050 --> 01:41:51,659
childhood need and to be really in

2570
01:41:57,050 --> 01:41:54,060
communion with my child self and after

2571
01:41:59,510 --> 01:41:57,060
that I sense I see it coming on the

2572
01:42:02,590 --> 01:41:59,520
horizon a whole new phase of writing

2573
01:42:05,930 --> 01:42:02,600
will come but much more mature writing

2574
01:42:07,810 --> 01:42:05,940
much more centered writing not writing

2575
01:42:13,729 --> 01:42:07,820
driven by

2576
01:42:16,430 --> 01:42:13,739
centered more

2577
01:42:18,109 --> 01:42:16,440
um more mature more adult writing which

2578
01:42:19,490 --> 01:42:18,119
will be a lot less conceptual because

2579
01:42:22,609 --> 01:42:19,500
it's more adult

2580
01:42:24,109 --> 01:42:22,619
that's what I sense so knock on wood

2581
01:42:26,570 --> 01:42:24,119
let's hope that that's how things will

2582
01:42:28,010 --> 01:42:26,580
play out but uh I don't need to know if

2583
01:42:30,470 --> 01:42:28,020
that's what will happen what will happen

2584
01:42:31,930 --> 01:42:30,480
is what will happen that's how I Live

2585
01:42:34,010 --> 01:42:31,940
Now

2586
01:42:35,450 --> 01:42:34,020
Chris do you have any thoughts on that

2587
01:42:38,629 --> 01:42:35,460
does anything occur to you or any

2588
01:42:42,649 --> 01:42:38,639
stories come to mind after you hear that

2589
01:42:45,770 --> 01:42:42,659
well it's uh of course I I there's value

2590
01:42:48,830 --> 01:42:45,780
in bernardo's advice and his his

2591
01:42:50,450 --> 01:42:48,840
anecdote I tend to have a much more

2592
01:42:54,830 --> 01:42:50,460
focused

2593
01:42:56,270 --> 01:42:54,840
uh view of the future and that's not to

2594
01:42:59,689 --> 01:42:56,280
say that I

2595
01:43:02,090 --> 01:42:59,699
plan everything in advance but I strive

2596
01:43:04,310 --> 01:43:02,100
to see the possibilities and then strive

2597
01:43:07,010 --> 01:43:04,320
to make out the one that best that is

2598
01:43:09,830 --> 01:43:07,020
optimal for my purposes and constantly

2599
01:43:12,250 --> 01:43:09,840
just you know I'm more of a driven

2600
01:43:15,350 --> 01:43:12,260
person I don't have

2601
01:43:17,510 --> 01:43:15,360
these these emotions that plague me on

2602
01:43:19,490 --> 01:43:17,520
you know all the time the way some

2603
01:43:21,109 --> 01:43:19,500
people do God bless them I mean it's

2604
01:43:25,250 --> 01:43:21,119
difficult to have to put up with that

2605
01:43:28,430 --> 01:43:25,260
but I'm more of a purpose-driven animal

2606
01:43:30,770 --> 01:43:28,440
okay and this is what this is the way I

2607
01:43:33,290 --> 01:43:30,780
approach reality and when I have when I

2608
01:43:34,669 --> 01:43:33,300
have some I I you know some people for

2609
01:43:36,530 --> 01:43:34,679
example

2610
01:43:38,270 --> 01:43:36,540
um I was in the bar business for years I

2611
01:43:39,890 --> 01:43:38,280
was a bouncer and there are some people

2612
01:43:41,570 --> 01:43:39,900
who just you know you throw them out of

2613
01:43:43,609 --> 01:43:41,580
a bar they don't forgive and forget

2614
01:43:45,770 --> 01:43:43,619
you know they're now become they fixate

2615
01:43:47,570 --> 01:43:45,780
on Revenge and they can't let go of it

2616
01:43:50,209 --> 01:43:47,580
and they can't I'm the kind of person

2617
01:43:52,129 --> 01:43:50,219
who can instantly let go of that kind of

2618
01:43:54,169 --> 01:43:52,139
thing I feel anger you know sometimes

2619
01:43:56,750 --> 01:43:54,179
and if the anger is to attest that bad

2620
01:43:58,490 --> 01:43:56,760
things can happen but if I if I can get

2621
01:44:00,830 --> 01:43:58,500
through that if I can stop from becoming

2622
01:44:01,790 --> 01:44:00,840
enraged then it's 10 minutes later I'm

2623
01:44:03,950 --> 01:44:01,800
just fine

2624
01:44:06,410 --> 01:44:03,960
unless unless it was such a serious

2625
01:44:08,689 --> 01:44:06,420
thing that I can't afford to be fine if

2626
01:44:11,689 --> 01:44:08,699
you know what I mean okay but I can let

2627
01:44:14,510 --> 01:44:11,699
go of things very easily and then divert

2628
01:44:16,070 --> 01:44:14,520
myself onto what I consider to be a more

2629
01:44:17,750 --> 01:44:16,080
productive track

2630
01:44:19,970 --> 01:44:17,760
this is something that you know if I

2631
01:44:21,410 --> 01:44:19,980
have the energy and as Bernardo was

2632
01:44:23,030 --> 01:44:21,420
talking about sometimes you just don't

2633
01:44:25,070 --> 01:44:23,040
feel the energy because it's like

2634
01:44:27,050 --> 01:44:25,080
there's a diamond sucking the energy out

2635
01:44:28,370 --> 01:44:27,060
of you for its own purposes and trying

2636
01:44:30,649 --> 01:44:28,380
to turn you in a certain direction or

2637
01:44:32,750 --> 01:44:30,659
what uh or whatnot and that is something

2638
01:44:35,030 --> 01:44:32,760
that I very much try to avoid if I

2639
01:44:38,270 --> 01:44:35,040
realize well there seems to be something

2640
01:44:40,910 --> 01:44:38,280
Beyond me that is using me in some way

2641
01:44:42,370 --> 01:44:40,920
I curtail it unless I discern that it's

2642
01:44:44,930 --> 01:44:42,380
good for me

2643
01:44:47,149 --> 01:44:44,940
so I'm constantly making these judgments

2644
01:44:48,709 --> 01:44:47,159
about purpose and about you know what I

2645
01:44:52,189 --> 01:44:48,719
should be doing you know and about my

2646
01:44:54,050 --> 01:44:52,199
impulses subjecting them to to cognition

2647
01:44:55,910 --> 01:44:54,060
and you know cognition is not progress

2648
01:44:57,590 --> 01:44:55,920
especially not a primary function it

2649
01:44:58,970 --> 01:44:57,600
comes out of out of will a lot of

2650
01:45:01,010 --> 01:44:58,980
Telesis which is what we've been talking

2651
01:45:03,350 --> 01:45:01,020
about here okay

2652
01:45:05,689 --> 01:45:03,360
um just like uh just like access

2653
01:45:09,050 --> 01:45:05,699
Consciousness for example as opposed to

2654
01:45:13,370 --> 01:45:09,060
phenomenal consciousness okay it's a

2655
01:45:16,609 --> 01:45:13,380
that all is is post-tellic to me right

2656
01:45:19,129 --> 01:45:16,619
so so although I do use cognition for

2657
01:45:21,109 --> 01:45:19,139
purposes of reflection you know all of

2658
01:45:23,629 --> 01:45:21,119
this takes place with me on a on an

2659
01:45:25,550 --> 01:45:23,639
emotional level beneath the surface

2660
01:45:26,930 --> 01:45:25,560
okay in other words I realize okay it's

2661
01:45:28,729 --> 01:45:26,940
not gonna this is going to lead to bad

2662
01:45:31,129 --> 01:45:28,739
feelings I'm not going to be satisfied

2663
01:45:33,890 --> 01:45:31,139
doing this immediately I change

2664
01:45:35,149 --> 01:45:33,900
directions and try to get myself on a

2665
01:45:37,189 --> 01:45:35,159
track that is going to be more

2666
01:45:40,129 --> 01:45:37,199
productive for me and not going to

2667
01:45:42,169 --> 01:45:40,139
subject me to you know any kind of bad

2668
01:45:43,550 --> 01:45:42,179
feelings or in the will or anything like

2669
01:45:45,950 --> 01:45:43,560
that

2670
01:45:47,689 --> 01:45:45,960
let me be personal for a couple minutes

2671
01:45:49,430 --> 01:45:47,699
maybe three minutes

2672
01:45:51,470 --> 01:45:49,440
I've spoken about this issue on the

2673
01:45:53,810 --> 01:45:51,480
podcast before you can see either the

2674
01:45:56,570 --> 01:45:53,820
Carl friston part 2 podcast or the Diana

2675
01:45:58,850 --> 01:45:56,580
posoka podcast for more information you

2676
01:45:59,930 --> 01:45:58,860
can also skip forward five minutes I

2677
01:46:01,790 --> 01:45:59,940
didn't know what it meant to take that

2678
01:46:04,550 --> 01:46:01,800
seriously until I felt it it's different

2679
01:46:05,390 --> 01:46:04,560
to feel something than it is to analyze

2680
01:46:09,830 --> 01:46:05,400
it

2681
01:46:11,750 --> 01:46:09,840
out of my mind

2682
01:46:13,669 --> 01:46:11,760
and I remember something calling me to

2683
01:46:16,850 --> 01:46:13,679
the center something calling me saying

2684
01:46:19,790 --> 01:46:16,860
Kurt you have you've been keeping your

2685
01:46:22,010 --> 01:46:19,800
mind far too open there is such a thing

2686
01:46:24,169 --> 01:46:22,020
as when people say

2687
01:46:25,669 --> 01:46:24,179
keep your mind open but not so open that

2688
01:46:27,530 --> 01:46:25,679
your head falls out I remember

2689
01:46:29,510 --> 01:46:27,540
saying hey yeah that's just to justify

2690
01:46:31,669 --> 01:46:29,520
your own close-mindedness something was

2691
01:46:33,770 --> 01:46:31,679
saying there's truth to that come back

2692
01:46:35,330 --> 01:46:33,780
to the center come back not to say that

2693
01:46:37,129 --> 01:46:35,340
it's not real like you have to decide

2694
01:46:38,390 --> 01:46:37,139
there is a reality to it but you have to

2695
01:46:41,930 --> 01:46:38,400
decide this

2696
01:46:43,609 --> 01:46:41,940
and so from like like I feel like my for

2697
01:46:45,470 --> 01:46:43,619
the past few months almost all of my

2698
01:46:48,530 --> 01:46:45,480
thoughts like it's abating my anxiety is

2699
01:46:50,330 --> 01:46:48,540
abating but I feel like I'm constantly

2700
01:46:52,669 --> 01:46:50,340
preventing myself from a nervous

2701
01:46:55,669 --> 01:46:52,679
breakdown and what's helped is is a

2702
01:46:57,950 --> 01:46:55,679
middle ground between you both which is

2703
01:46:59,689 --> 01:46:57,960
to retain a sense of control so

2704
01:47:01,430 --> 01:46:59,699
something called ACT therapy acceptance

2705
01:47:03,530 --> 01:47:01,440
and commitment therapy so you accept

2706
01:47:04,850 --> 01:47:03,540
that's where Bernardo you come in where

2707
01:47:06,410 --> 01:47:04,860
it's like okay you accept that you know

2708
01:47:08,629 --> 01:47:06,420
these thoughts are simply thoughts and

2709
01:47:10,070 --> 01:47:08,639
they may occur just like the thoughts

2710
01:47:11,750 --> 01:47:10,080
occur to everyone don't think you're

2711
01:47:14,030 --> 01:47:11,760
ever going to get rid of them and maybe

2712
01:47:15,470 --> 01:47:14,040
they will become zero but don't think

2713
01:47:17,570 --> 01:47:15,480
that and then also to accept the

2714
01:47:19,609 --> 01:47:17,580
thoughts but not to merge with them not

2715
01:47:22,669 --> 01:47:19,619
fuse with them except simply means

2716
01:47:25,189 --> 01:47:22,679
acknowledge softly gently I see you

2717
01:47:27,410 --> 01:47:25,199
thought interesting that you're there I

2718
01:47:29,209 --> 01:47:27,420
don't need to take you seriously and

2719
01:47:30,470 --> 01:47:29,219
then just go to where your values are

2720
01:47:32,030 --> 01:47:30,480
and you commit to where your values are

2721
01:47:33,470 --> 01:47:32,040
which is where the control comes in so

2722
01:47:35,810 --> 01:47:33,480
you have to have some value so my values

2723
01:47:37,550 --> 01:47:35,820
are my wife and and love and and this

2724
01:47:38,870 --> 01:47:37,560
this world and seeing behind my eyes and

2725
01:47:41,510 --> 01:47:38,880
actually feeling like I'm behind my eyes

2726
01:47:45,229 --> 01:47:41,520
which was not there from the two months

2727
01:47:48,950 --> 01:47:46,850
anyway

2728
01:47:52,430 --> 01:47:48,960
I've come to the decision now that what

2729
01:47:58,189 --> 01:47:55,250
is not a toll is like I used to love toe

2730
01:47:59,990 --> 01:47:58,199
like doing everything speaking to to and

2731
01:48:01,609 --> 01:48:00,000
learning great theories and I still love

2732
01:48:03,890 --> 01:48:01,619
that I still do that actually gives me

2733
01:48:05,270 --> 01:48:03,900
some same some sanity if it's not

2734
01:48:06,770 --> 01:48:05,280
Consciousness related if it's math and

2735
01:48:08,810 --> 01:48:06,780
physics because it's dispassionate but

2736
01:48:11,149 --> 01:48:08,820
what's primary is my relationship with

2737
01:48:13,129 --> 01:48:11,159
my wife and love and so if I have to

2738
01:48:14,750 --> 01:48:13,139
sacrifice a toe day of studying to go

2739
01:48:17,030 --> 01:48:14,760
spend time with my wife I do almost

2740
01:48:19,970 --> 01:48:17,040
invariably that was never there before

2741
01:48:22,250 --> 01:48:19,980
work comes first before now it's like no

2742
01:48:24,410 --> 01:48:22,260
no Kurt almost everything May fade in

2743
01:48:26,209 --> 01:48:24,420
some manner all of what I'm putting out

2744
01:48:28,430 --> 01:48:26,219
on YouTube may fit people may take it

2745
01:48:30,350 --> 01:48:28,440
out of context people may shape it but

2746
01:48:32,510 --> 01:48:30,360
just like the Nirvana logo kids wear it

2747
01:48:33,950 --> 01:48:32,520
it used to be from Nirvana the band kids

2748
01:48:36,290 --> 01:48:33,960
have no idea who Nirvana is but they

2749
01:48:38,510 --> 01:48:36,300
wear the shirt the term Nirvana used to

2750
01:48:40,550 --> 01:48:38,520
mean something Buddhist but Nirvana took

2751
01:48:41,990 --> 01:48:40,560
that and so constantly something will

2752
01:48:45,770 --> 01:48:42,000
get taken away from you and change

2753
01:48:47,689 --> 01:48:45,780
that's out of your hand love is primary

2754
01:48:50,149 --> 01:48:47,699
just follow that

2755
01:48:52,310 --> 01:48:50,159
so that's what I guide Myself by now

2756
01:48:54,290 --> 01:48:52,320
and that's given me some sanity the way

2757
01:48:55,970 --> 01:48:54,300
I imagine it is almost like a pendulum

2758
01:48:57,470 --> 01:48:55,980
instead of now swinging it to the other

2759
01:48:58,850 --> 01:48:57,480
side which was me before trying to avoid

2760
01:49:00,350 --> 01:48:58,860
no I don't want to think don't want to

2761
01:49:01,790 --> 01:49:00,360
think that that makes it come back it's

2762
01:49:05,450 --> 01:49:01,800
a gentle

2763
01:49:07,790 --> 01:49:05,460
nudge to the center I try not to run

2764
01:49:09,770 --> 01:49:07,800
from it but it's not the same as facing

2765
01:49:11,930 --> 01:49:09,780
it which is what I thought I had to do

2766
01:49:13,850 --> 01:49:11,940
it's more the same as just interesting

2767
01:49:16,609 --> 01:49:13,860
huh

2768
01:49:18,649 --> 01:49:16,619
okay let me move toward what I what I

2769
01:49:20,149 --> 01:49:18,659
value I want to put warning signs on all

2770
01:49:23,050 --> 01:49:20,159
my interviews now because of that

2771
01:49:27,530 --> 01:49:23,060
because like some people just

2772
01:49:29,390 --> 01:49:27,540
advice should be advice should be

2773
01:49:30,649 --> 01:49:29,400
taken slowly

2774
01:49:31,850 --> 01:49:30,659
anyway

2775
01:49:33,530 --> 01:49:31,860
they're saying that this is some

2776
01:49:35,930 --> 01:49:33,540
Awakening and there's this quote from

2777
01:49:38,930 --> 01:49:35,940
H.P Lovecraft which I agree with which

2778
01:49:41,149 --> 01:49:38,940
is hey the the one of the greatest

2779
01:49:42,530 --> 01:49:41,159
mercies of the world is our inability to

2780
01:49:44,629 --> 01:49:42,540
correlate its contents the whole

2781
01:49:48,010 --> 01:49:44,639
realities contents and as soon as you do

2782
01:49:51,169 --> 01:49:48,020
you may go mad from the Revelation or or

2783
01:49:52,910 --> 01:49:51,179
beg for the ignorance of the past and

2784
01:49:55,790 --> 01:49:52,920
flee into the darkness from the light

2785
01:49:57,169 --> 01:49:55,800
and Jacobi last quote Jacoby had a quote

2786
01:49:58,010 --> 01:49:57,179
don't know which Jacoby there's like 12

2787
01:50:00,890 --> 01:49:58,020
of them

2788
01:50:03,169 --> 01:50:00,900
that humans have one choice but a single

2789
01:50:04,790 --> 01:50:03,179
choice either God or nothingness by

2790
01:50:06,350 --> 01:50:04,800
choosing nothingness man makes himself

2791
01:50:08,089 --> 01:50:06,360
into a God because it means everything

2792
01:50:09,830 --> 01:50:08,099
around you is an apparition now don't

2793
01:50:11,750 --> 01:50:09,840
follow that logic but regardless I like

2794
01:50:13,250 --> 01:50:11,760
the the Poetics behind it he said so

2795
01:50:15,890 --> 01:50:13,260
there's only one choice

2796
01:50:18,290 --> 01:50:15,900
God exists outside of me as a living

2797
01:50:20,209 --> 01:50:18,300
being in and of himself or I am God

2798
01:50:22,850 --> 01:50:20,219
there is no third I think that's true

2799
01:50:24,770 --> 01:50:22,860
that's that all right so now you have

2800
01:50:26,089 --> 01:50:24,780
like great insight into Kurt the past

2801
01:50:27,830 --> 01:50:26,099
few months

2802
01:50:29,209 --> 01:50:27,840
the reason I tell you all this is

2803
01:50:32,149 --> 01:50:29,219
because well

2804
01:50:35,089 --> 01:50:32,159
hey Eddie delicate advice if you've gone

2805
01:50:37,729 --> 01:50:35,099
through something similar I'm extremely

2806
01:50:39,830 --> 01:50:37,739
appreciative of

2807
01:50:41,390 --> 01:50:39,840
well I don't think that it's quite

2808
01:50:44,209 --> 01:50:41,400
accurate to say there are only these two

2809
01:50:46,970 --> 01:50:44,219
Alternatives either I have to be God or

2810
01:50:48,890 --> 01:50:46,980
God has to exist entirely outside of me

2811
01:50:50,810 --> 01:50:48,900
okay there is a there's a middle ground

2812
01:50:52,490 --> 01:50:50,820
there and as a matter of fact I would

2813
01:50:55,010 --> 01:50:52,500
affirm that middle ground and say that

2814
01:50:57,410 --> 01:50:55,020
if you if you make this false dichotomy

2815
01:50:59,649 --> 01:50:57,420
out of it either I have to be God you

2816
01:51:02,689 --> 01:50:59,659
know it's totally solipsistic Universe

2817
01:51:04,850 --> 01:51:02,699
right that that is a mistake basically

2818
01:51:07,129 --> 01:51:04,860
you're dissociating yourself from your

2819
01:51:08,689 --> 01:51:07,139
true highest level of identity and you

2820
01:51:10,010 --> 01:51:08,699
can't afford to do that you have to try

2821
01:51:12,290 --> 01:51:10,020
to take in the little structure and

2822
01:51:14,149 --> 01:51:12,300
understand it's very very difficult you

2823
01:51:15,890 --> 01:51:14,159
know I mean Lovecraft may have thought

2824
01:51:17,990 --> 01:51:15,900
that this is you know something that

2825
01:51:19,609 --> 01:51:18,000
drives you into the arms of thulu you

2826
01:51:22,010 --> 01:51:19,619
know or or whatever you know

2827
01:51:23,990 --> 01:51:22,020
nevertheless it is absolutely necessary

2828
01:51:26,890 --> 01:51:24,000
for you to maintain your psychological

2829
01:51:30,470 --> 01:51:26,900
equilibrium okay it's homeostatic okay

2830
01:51:33,709 --> 01:51:30,480
you mentioned God a lot during this this

2831
01:51:37,970 --> 01:51:33,719
uh this disquisition here and God is a

2832
01:51:40,129 --> 01:51:37,980
uh is a fixture now in your awareness

2833
01:51:41,990 --> 01:51:40,139
and that's a very very good thing okay

2834
01:51:43,970 --> 01:51:42,000
when you talk about God says you know

2835
01:51:47,330 --> 01:51:43,980
your in Philippians it says you know

2836
01:51:49,129 --> 01:51:47,340
throw your your cares on to God okay you

2837
01:51:50,330 --> 01:51:49,139
can't hand your cares off to God unless

2838
01:51:52,370 --> 01:51:50,340
you're close to God unless you're

2839
01:51:54,229 --> 01:51:52,380
actually within standing disc you can

2840
01:51:56,390 --> 01:51:54,239
hand them off and that's the whole point

2841
01:51:58,070 --> 01:51:56,400
of that basically you you know to hand

2842
01:51:59,750 --> 01:51:58,080
things off to God he's the same as

2843
01:52:01,370 --> 01:51:59,760
handing them off to your own highest

2844
01:52:03,830 --> 01:52:01,380
level of identity

2845
01:52:06,109 --> 01:52:03,840
okay it's not outside you're a part of

2846
01:52:08,330 --> 01:52:06,119
it you're a lower stratum but that

2847
01:52:10,729 --> 01:52:08,340
identity actually spans you and spans

2848
01:52:12,589 --> 01:52:10,739
all of reality your feature of reality

2849
01:52:14,750 --> 01:52:12,599
you're an aspect of the part of reality

2850
01:52:16,970 --> 01:52:14,760
so you have to keep this in mind it's a

2851
01:52:19,010 --> 01:52:16,980
myriology it's the relationship of a

2852
01:52:21,410 --> 01:52:19,020
part to its whole and if you keep that

2853
01:52:23,930 --> 01:52:21,420
in mind and that is what the ctmu is

2854
01:52:25,850 --> 01:52:23,940
about by the way it's a myriology if you

2855
01:52:29,450 --> 01:52:25,860
keep that in mind then you will remain

2856
01:52:34,070 --> 01:52:29,460
in balance with the rest of reality

2857
01:52:36,290 --> 01:52:34,080
that would be my helpful advice

2858
01:52:39,350 --> 01:52:36,300
Bernardo man

2859
01:52:40,970 --> 01:52:39,360
who am I to render

2860
01:52:44,209 --> 01:52:40,980
advice

2861
01:52:47,030 --> 01:52:44,219
um I'm younger than Chris

2862
01:52:50,390 --> 01:52:47,040
if I can share something with you is

2863
01:52:53,089 --> 01:52:50,400
that it this is life it's it's the

2864
01:52:56,270 --> 01:52:53,099
process of life life buffets us and

2865
01:52:57,890 --> 01:52:56,280
brings us to the edge and it should if

2866
01:53:00,669 --> 01:52:57,900
you if it's not bringing you to the edge

2867
01:53:03,589 --> 01:53:00,679
you're not living fully

2868
01:53:05,870 --> 01:53:03,599
the art is to navigate The Edge without

2869
01:53:08,689 --> 01:53:05,880
falling down the precipice but

2870
01:53:11,450 --> 01:53:08,699
navigating The Edge because that's the

2871
01:53:13,850 --> 01:53:11,460
path of maturation that's the path of

2872
01:53:16,550 --> 01:53:13,860
change otherwise you will always remain

2873
01:53:19,129 --> 01:53:16,560
with your then the same narratives the

2874
01:53:22,010 --> 01:53:19,139
same Illusions such as the illusion of

2875
01:53:23,990 --> 01:53:22,020
identity the illusion of control these

2876
01:53:27,550 --> 01:53:24,000
things don't go away

2877
01:53:31,010 --> 01:53:27,560
um if you if you're not tested by life

2878
01:53:33,250 --> 01:53:31,020
so hey who rate what's happening to you

2879
01:53:36,649 --> 01:53:33,260
it it may feel

2880
01:53:38,330 --> 01:53:36,659
extremely uncomfortable but that's the

2881
01:53:39,950 --> 01:53:38,340
point that's the point if you're always

2882
01:53:41,870 --> 01:53:39,960
in your comfort zone you're not going

2883
01:53:44,089 --> 01:53:41,880
anywhere and one day you will wake up in

2884
01:53:46,430 --> 01:53:44,099
your deathbed and think what was this

2885
01:53:48,470 --> 01:53:46,440
all about what was this for I wasted the

2886
01:53:51,350 --> 01:53:48,480
whole thing now that's not going to be

2887
01:53:53,390 --> 01:53:51,360
your destiny my friend you're not going

2888
01:53:54,770 --> 01:53:53,400
to that dark place

2889
01:53:56,330 --> 01:53:54,780
um

2890
01:53:59,510 --> 01:53:56,340
there was something else I wanted to

2891
01:54:03,229 --> 01:53:59,520
share with you but uh it just escaped my

2892
01:54:06,410 --> 01:54:03,239
mind you just used a phrase if you don't

2893
01:54:08,270 --> 01:54:06,420
mind I rejecting you basically said the

2894
01:54:10,550 --> 01:54:08,280
illusion of identity

2895
01:54:11,770 --> 01:54:10,560
now I understand that you have that in

2896
01:54:14,930 --> 01:54:11,780
analytic

2897
01:54:17,109 --> 01:54:14,940
idealism you've got the idea that this

2898
01:54:20,209 --> 01:54:17,119
is something like like

2899
01:54:22,550 --> 01:54:20,219
some kind of identity disorder you know

2900
01:54:24,709 --> 01:54:22,560
this dissociative identity disorder in

2901
01:54:27,709 --> 01:54:24,719
which everybody is an alter

2902
01:54:30,050 --> 01:54:27,719
of this one primary Primal identity

2903
01:54:33,290 --> 01:54:30,060
right is that what you're referring to

2904
01:54:34,430 --> 01:54:33,300
that it is it is illusory to think of

2905
01:54:37,550 --> 01:54:34,440
you is that what the illusion of

2906
01:54:39,350 --> 01:54:37,560
identity is if you force me down the

2907
01:54:41,209 --> 01:54:39,360
conceptual path I would have to say yes

2908
01:54:43,430 --> 01:54:41,219
but I I was not trying to speak

2909
01:54:48,550 --> 01:54:43,440
conceptually I'm I'm not trying to speak

2910
01:54:52,450 --> 01:54:48,560
Theory to to Kurt uh theory is here

2911
01:54:55,430 --> 01:54:52,460
and Kurt oh I remember now

2912
01:54:57,530 --> 01:54:55,440
what you're suffering from is something

2913
01:55:00,830 --> 01:54:57,540
that the vast majority of people have

2914
01:55:03,950 --> 01:55:00,840
the opposite problem you internalize

2915
01:55:06,229 --> 01:55:03,960
a narrative you internalize a world view

2916
01:55:09,109 --> 01:55:06,239
you are able of you're capable of

2917
01:55:11,750 --> 01:55:09,119
internalizing it it comes from your head

2918
01:55:15,050 --> 01:55:11,760
purely conceptual it sinks into the body

2919
01:55:17,330 --> 01:55:15,060
and you can live from the perspective of

2920
01:55:20,089 --> 01:55:17,340
that world view and and that's what you

2921
01:55:22,629 --> 01:55:20,099
experience as testing your balance

2922
01:55:24,790 --> 01:55:22,639
testing your centeredness or or

2923
01:55:28,010 --> 01:55:24,800
threatening to make you lose yourself

2924
01:55:30,250 --> 01:55:28,020
because you can embody what for most

2925
01:55:32,570 --> 01:55:30,260
people is purely a conceptual narrative

2926
01:55:36,169 --> 01:55:32,580
most people have the opposite problem

2927
01:55:38,629 --> 01:55:36,179
they cannot embody a narrative they're

2928
01:55:40,790 --> 01:55:38,639
incapable of making that translation and

2929
01:55:43,310 --> 01:55:40,800
what that means is that even if they

2930
01:55:46,070 --> 01:55:43,320
understand certain things and they make

2931
01:55:47,750 --> 01:55:46,080
progress cognitively in understanding it

2932
01:55:50,410 --> 01:55:47,760
doesn't change their lives it doesn't

2933
01:55:53,390 --> 01:55:50,420
touch their emotions they continue to to

2934
01:55:55,729 --> 01:55:53,400
live according to Old patterns to Old

2935
01:55:57,109 --> 01:55:55,739
references because that's there is a

2936
01:56:00,050 --> 01:55:57,119
level in which they don't actually

2937
01:56:02,950 --> 01:56:00,060
believe the conceptual narratives you

2938
01:56:06,709 --> 01:56:02,960
have your gates open

2939
01:56:08,570 --> 01:56:06,719
that is a tremendous Advantage compared

2940
01:56:10,490 --> 01:56:08,580
to most people but also a liability

2941
01:56:13,970 --> 01:56:10,500
because you have to watch that gate

2942
01:56:16,629 --> 01:56:13,980
carefully you can you can put yourself

2943
01:56:20,570 --> 01:56:16,639
in a place from which it's very hard to

2944
01:56:22,750 --> 01:56:20,580
emerge again but

2945
01:56:26,030 --> 01:56:22,760
everything you said

2946
01:56:28,149 --> 01:56:26,040
to me I'll just say you know hooray

2947
01:56:31,250 --> 01:56:28,159
cheers to life you're living

2948
01:56:33,709 --> 01:56:31,260
congratulations man

2949
01:56:34,790 --> 01:56:33,719
I'm going to comment on the illusory

2950
01:56:41,870 --> 01:56:34,800
aspect

2951
01:56:43,850 --> 01:56:41,880
groundedness was when I was speaking to

2952
01:56:46,970 --> 01:56:43,860
this professor of religion named Diana

2953
01:56:48,950 --> 01:56:46,980
pasoka she was saying Kurt don't worry

2954
01:56:50,629 --> 01:56:48,960
that half of the world thinks that I am

2955
01:56:52,310 --> 01:56:50,639
God and so on because you don't know

2956
01:56:54,109 --> 01:56:52,320
what they mean by that I don't have the

2957
01:56:55,430 --> 01:56:54,119
like I have an idea of what they mean it

2958
01:56:57,229 --> 01:56:55,440
could be misinterpreting what they mean

2959
01:56:58,910 --> 01:56:57,239
they could be wrong at the same time

2960
01:57:00,350 --> 01:56:58,920
millions and billions of people have

2961
01:57:02,270 --> 01:57:00,360
been wrong all of these practices

2962
01:57:04,250 --> 01:57:02,280
meditation and psychedelics they're

2963
01:57:06,890 --> 01:57:04,260
meant to be done with the community and

2964
01:57:08,750 --> 01:57:06,900
all these insights she said she would

2965
01:57:10,189 --> 01:57:08,760
imagine if you went to some leader and

2966
01:57:12,169 --> 01:57:10,199
you told them this Insight they'd be

2967
01:57:14,030 --> 01:57:12,179
like oh no like that's what that's

2968
01:57:16,250 --> 01:57:14,040
completely wrong like you're not

2969
01:57:18,770 --> 01:57:16,260
you are not God like you are an aspect

2970
01:57:21,229 --> 01:57:18,780
of God or whatever it may be

2971
01:57:23,209 --> 01:57:21,239
and then she also said the Plato's Cave

2972
01:57:24,350 --> 01:57:23,219
Journeys what's what's happening or The

2973
01:57:25,790 --> 01:57:24,360
Dark Knight of the Soul she used that

2974
01:57:28,850 --> 01:57:25,800
phrase she said

2975
01:57:30,890 --> 01:57:28,860
the actual full story of that or you

2976
01:57:32,149 --> 01:57:30,900
think this is reality of the wall you

2977
01:57:35,209 --> 01:57:32,159
come out you feel like that's an

2978
01:57:37,250 --> 01:57:35,219
illusion then the end of the story is to

2979
01:57:38,870 --> 01:57:37,260
somehow realize that what you

2980
01:57:40,609 --> 01:57:38,880
thought was real in the beginning is

2981
01:57:43,070 --> 01:57:40,619
indeed real it's just real in another

2982
01:57:44,510 --> 01:57:43,080
manner like somehow more real and then I

2983
01:57:46,430 --> 01:57:44,520
remember something Bernardo that you

2984
01:57:48,229 --> 01:57:46,440
said look at this this we think of a

2985
01:57:49,669 --> 01:57:48,239
solid we feel it there's solidity to it

2986
01:57:51,229 --> 01:57:49,679
yet we look at it through a microscope

2987
01:57:54,649 --> 01:57:51,239
and we say yeah the atoms are far apart

2988
01:57:56,930 --> 01:57:54,659
this is the solidity is an illusion uh

2989
01:57:58,550 --> 01:57:56,940
that's if you take materialism as

2990
01:58:01,010 --> 01:57:58,560
primary what if you take your conscious

2991
01:58:03,229 --> 01:58:01,020
experience no no this is solid this

2992
01:58:04,609 --> 01:58:03,239
actually is solid there's something real

2993
01:58:06,890 --> 01:58:04,619
about that there's something real about

2994
01:58:08,390 --> 01:58:06,900
this table there's something real about

2995
01:58:09,350 --> 01:58:08,400
me inhabiting this world I can go

2996
01:58:11,390 --> 01:58:09,360
through this process where I feel like

2997
01:58:13,790 --> 01:58:11,400
oh that's all an illusion but then

2998
01:58:14,930 --> 01:58:13,800
there's this quote about T.S Eliot that

2999
01:58:16,129 --> 01:58:14,940
the point of the journey is to come back

3000
01:58:18,410 --> 01:58:16,139
where you started and know the place for

3001
01:58:20,629 --> 01:58:18,420
the first time I feel like that I'm

3002
01:58:23,510 --> 01:58:20,639
slowly starting where I feel the reality

3003
01:58:24,770 --> 01:58:23,520
of this more I feel it but then there's

3004
01:58:25,850 --> 01:58:24,780
a nagging part of me that's like yeah

3005
01:58:27,189 --> 01:58:25,860
you're tricking yourself great you're

3006
01:58:31,370 --> 01:58:27,199
tricking yourself

3007
01:58:34,330 --> 01:58:31,380
we let our theories hijack the reality

3008
01:58:37,310 --> 01:58:34,340
of our experiences and that's a tragedy

3009
01:58:39,470 --> 01:58:37,320
experiences are not nothing they're the

3010
01:58:41,570 --> 01:58:39,480
only thing that is really real that's

3011
01:58:44,390 --> 01:58:41,580
not just abstraction so it doesn't

3012
01:58:46,430 --> 01:58:44,400
matter that you oh there are atoms here

3013
01:58:48,410 --> 01:58:46,440
and then the distance between the

3014
01:58:50,990 --> 01:58:48,420
electron orbitals and the nucleus is

3015
01:58:53,030 --> 01:58:51,000
enormous relative to the to the diameter

3016
01:58:55,850 --> 01:58:53,040
of the particles themselves yeah it's

3017
01:58:58,550 --> 01:58:55,860
all true but you experience this you

3018
01:59:00,310 --> 01:58:58,560
hold this it has weight it has texture

3019
01:59:06,350 --> 01:59:00,320
it

3020
01:59:07,669 --> 01:59:06,360
this is all real stuff

3021
01:59:10,550 --> 01:59:07,679
now

3022
01:59:13,550 --> 01:59:10,560
a conceptual understanding a conceptual

3023
01:59:15,470 --> 01:59:13,560
narrative behind that maybe true or not

3024
01:59:19,669 --> 01:59:15,480
but it doesn't take away from the

3025
01:59:22,790 --> 01:59:19,679
experience whatever this is it is an

3026
01:59:25,370 --> 01:59:22,800
experience and it is real as such

3027
01:59:29,410 --> 01:59:25,380
the problem is that we we are in a

3028
01:59:31,609 --> 01:59:29,420
society which implicitly tells us

3029
01:59:33,890 --> 01:59:31,619
experiences in themselves are nothing

3030
01:59:37,089 --> 01:59:33,900
it's the thing that lies behind the

3031
01:59:40,970 --> 01:59:37,099
experience that counts that's

3032
01:59:42,169 --> 01:59:40,980
absolutely nonsensical all we have is

3033
01:59:44,750 --> 01:59:42,179
experience

3034
01:59:47,570 --> 01:59:44,760
The Narrative behind it can help us

3035
01:59:51,169 --> 01:59:47,580
develop a certain understanding but not

3036
01:59:54,229 --> 01:59:51,179
by robbing us of the immediacy of

3037
01:59:56,750 --> 01:59:54,239
experience which ultimately is is all we

3038
01:59:59,270 --> 01:59:56,760
have we can add understanding to that

3039
02:00:02,510 --> 01:59:59,280
but that understanding is a layer on top

3040
02:00:04,209 --> 02:00:02,520
of the immediacy of experience and look

3041
02:00:07,850 --> 02:00:04,219
the ego

3042
02:00:10,609 --> 02:00:07,860
exists it's a tool without it I wouldn't

3043
02:00:12,109 --> 02:00:10,619
note which mouth to bring the fork so

3044
02:00:13,550 --> 02:00:12,119
there is something there that we call

3045
02:00:17,390 --> 02:00:13,560
the ego

3046
02:00:19,790 --> 02:00:17,400
now is it your subjectivity in and of

3047
02:00:21,950 --> 02:00:19,800
itself or not that's a valid question I

3048
02:00:24,109 --> 02:00:21,960
would answer that it the ego is not your

3049
02:00:26,750 --> 02:00:24,119
subjectivity it it's it's a certain

3050
02:00:29,570 --> 02:00:26,760
configuration of experiences or a

3051
02:00:31,910 --> 02:00:29,580
narrative within your subjectivity and

3052
02:00:35,870 --> 02:00:31,920
yes ideallyism ultimately it's a form of

3053
02:00:38,149 --> 02:00:35,880
cosmic solipsism and you can dip your

3054
02:00:41,570 --> 02:00:38,159
toes in those Waters and you recoil from

3055
02:00:44,930 --> 02:00:41,580
it I call it the vertigo of Eternity

3056
02:00:47,930 --> 02:00:44,940
um it's a place that um

3057
02:00:49,550 --> 02:00:47,940
is very hard to visit very hard to

3058
02:00:52,729 --> 02:00:49,560
confront

3059
02:00:55,729 --> 02:00:52,739
um which may be a clue to why we are

3060
02:00:59,209 --> 02:00:55,739
here you know in this form

3061
02:01:01,729 --> 02:00:59,219
um but maturing has always to do with

3062
02:01:05,209 --> 02:01:01,739
poking you out of your comfort zone and

3063
02:01:07,189 --> 02:01:05,219
and and buffetting you a little uh and

3064
02:01:09,770 --> 02:01:07,199
and you just have to hold the boat

3065
02:01:13,669 --> 02:01:09,780
together so it can continue to navigate

3066
02:01:16,790 --> 02:01:13,679
and not sink but I I don't think there

3067
02:01:19,790 --> 02:01:16,800
is anything intrinsically bad about

3068
02:01:23,390 --> 02:01:19,800
the fact that the waters are trying and

3069
02:01:25,390 --> 02:01:23,400
it's it's trying and stuff uh and that's

3070
02:01:27,770 --> 02:01:25,400
how we progress I mean I I

3071
02:01:30,589 --> 02:01:27,780
I'm not a prophet I'm not going to

3072
02:01:33,290 --> 02:01:30,599
predict your future and you come from a

3073
02:01:35,390 --> 02:01:33,300
different place than me your life has a

3074
02:01:39,950 --> 02:01:35,400
different context what holds to me may

3075
02:01:41,810 --> 02:01:39,960
not hold to you please hold to you but

3076
02:01:43,750 --> 02:01:41,820
now I'm going to do exactly what I said

3077
02:01:47,109 --> 02:01:43,760
I wouldn't do which is make a prediction

3078
02:01:48,649 --> 02:01:47,119
so forgive me for that okay but

3079
02:01:53,750 --> 02:01:48,659
moment

3080
02:01:56,030 --> 02:01:53,760
when you realize that your problems will

3081
02:01:58,790 --> 02:01:56,040
dissipate not because you answered your

3082
02:02:02,689 --> 02:01:58,800
questions but because you no longer feel

3083
02:02:06,589 --> 02:02:04,669
yeah I'll leave it at that

3084
02:02:07,850 --> 02:02:06,599
okay so Chris whatever thoughts come to

3085
02:02:10,490 --> 02:02:07,860
you and then we can move on to another

3086
02:02:12,290 --> 02:02:10,500
couple questions I'm sorry to go on this

3087
02:02:14,510 --> 02:02:12,300
aside you were just communicating with

3088
02:02:17,750 --> 02:02:14,520
your own highest level of identity so

3089
02:02:19,490 --> 02:02:17,760
okay that's that's basically God and the

3090
02:02:21,770 --> 02:02:19,500
reason that you are able to communicate

3091
02:02:22,669 --> 02:02:21,780
with God is that you are an aspect of

3092
02:02:26,990 --> 02:02:22,679
God

3093
02:02:28,550 --> 02:02:27,000
Reality almost has to be that way

3094
02:02:32,330 --> 02:02:28,560
otherwise it makes no sense to call

3095
02:02:35,629 --> 02:02:32,340
something God okay you are a part of God

3096
02:02:37,669 --> 02:02:35,639
and you are a stratum of God's identity

3097
02:02:39,890 --> 02:02:37,679
it's as simple as that and you give rise

3098
02:02:42,530 --> 02:02:39,900
to things and your experiences

3099
02:02:44,930 --> 02:02:42,540
they are identities your experiences

3100
02:02:48,589 --> 02:02:44,940
experience is not something that can't

3101
02:02:50,930 --> 02:02:48,599
it is it's one unary you know coherent

3102
02:02:54,350 --> 02:02:50,940
thing and yet it can be teased apart

3103
02:02:56,330 --> 02:02:54,360
into this idea of form of substance okay

3104
02:02:58,729 --> 02:02:56,340
it's basically an experience as an

3105
02:03:00,830 --> 02:02:58,739
interface it's an interface between you

3106
02:03:03,229 --> 02:03:00,840
and reality it's you accepting input

3107
02:03:05,810 --> 02:03:03,239
from the outside world or internal input

3108
02:03:07,729 --> 02:03:05,820
from yourself okay and transducing it

3109
02:03:10,910 --> 02:03:07,739
and then turning that into a thought or

3110
02:03:13,430 --> 02:03:10,920
into Behavior okay this is this is what

3111
02:03:15,589 --> 02:03:13,440
it is this is what it's doing for you so

3112
02:03:17,750 --> 02:03:15,599
your experience is even your your purely

3113
02:03:20,089 --> 02:03:17,760
mental experiences are of utmost value

3114
02:03:22,790 --> 02:03:20,099
to you they are identities there are

3115
02:03:25,250 --> 02:03:22,800
that are a part of your identity and you

3116
02:03:27,350 --> 02:03:25,260
are a part of a greater identity

3117
02:03:29,990 --> 02:03:27,360
okay so you've got this Continuum of

3118
02:03:31,790 --> 02:03:30,000
identities all right and it's it's a

3119
02:03:35,030 --> 02:03:31,800
nested it's it's kind of a you know a

3120
02:03:36,410 --> 02:03:35,040
it's a it's a Russian doll so it's uh

3121
02:03:39,770 --> 02:03:36,420
it's you know

3122
02:03:42,109 --> 02:03:39,780
uh matrushka you know matrushka dolls I

3123
02:03:43,430 --> 02:03:42,119
forget anyway basically it's one thing

3124
02:03:45,649 --> 02:03:43,440
nested within another you've got a

3125
02:03:47,450 --> 02:03:45,659
highest level of identity your identity

3126
02:03:49,790 --> 02:03:47,460
is nested in it and your experience is

3127
02:03:51,709 --> 02:03:49,800
invested in you they're all identities

3128
02:03:54,589 --> 02:03:51,719
okay putting all of those things

3129
02:03:57,229 --> 02:03:54,599
together is what it seems to me that

3130
02:04:01,250 --> 02:03:57,239
you're doing a very very valuable thing

3131
02:04:03,290 --> 02:04:01,260
so I would say keep up the good work

3132
02:04:06,350 --> 02:04:03,300
well hey man it's like any compliment

3133
02:04:07,910 --> 02:04:06,360
from you is a it's an honor so let's

3134
02:04:10,010 --> 02:04:07,920
just end this with

3135
02:04:11,750 --> 02:04:10,020
what you all value what do you value

3136
02:04:13,129 --> 02:04:11,760
most

3137
02:04:14,890 --> 02:04:13,139
Chris

3138
02:04:17,390 --> 02:04:14,900
what do I value most

3139
02:04:20,750 --> 02:04:17,400
uh god

3140
02:04:23,270 --> 02:04:20,760
um what's the identity of reality

3141
02:04:25,729 --> 02:04:23,280
um and of course

3142
02:04:28,189 --> 02:04:25,739
supporting and and aiding the

3143
02:04:30,229 --> 02:04:28,199
Fulfillment of reality I believe the

3144
02:04:32,510 --> 02:04:30,239
reality actually has a goal a

3145
02:04:34,669 --> 02:04:32,520
teleological purpose that it that it is

3146
02:04:37,550 --> 02:04:34,679
that it is determined by its structure

3147
02:04:40,129 --> 02:04:37,560
basically it's built into what it is and

3148
02:04:43,430 --> 02:04:40,139
that it is my job to fulfill help

3149
02:04:46,430 --> 02:04:43,440
reality fulfill that that that it's

3150
02:04:48,830 --> 02:04:46,440
goals it's teleological impetus which

3151
02:04:50,569 --> 02:04:48,840
derives from its structure because I'm a

3152
02:04:52,850 --> 02:04:50,579
part of it and it's my own highest level

3153
02:04:56,390 --> 02:04:52,860
of identity and it's my job to help it

3154
02:04:58,490 --> 02:04:56,400
just as as it helps me okay I'm carried

3155
02:05:00,109 --> 02:04:58,500
within it I exist within it so I'm going

3156
02:05:03,169 --> 02:05:00,119
to return the favor and I'm going to try

3157
02:05:04,609 --> 02:05:03,179
to reinforce it as much as I can that's

3158
02:05:05,930 --> 02:05:04,619
what's valuable to me and then of course

3159
02:05:07,970 --> 02:05:05,940
we have all of the things that are

3160
02:05:10,790 --> 02:05:07,980
valuable to everybody you know the idea

3161
02:05:13,550 --> 02:05:10,800
of of love you know I mean I have a wife

3162
02:05:16,129 --> 02:05:13,560
so I have home I have you know pets I

3163
02:05:18,050 --> 02:05:16,139
have dogs that that love me you know the

3164
02:05:20,270 --> 02:05:18,060
taste of a good meal you know or a good

3165
02:05:22,910 --> 02:05:20,280
drink right having fun with your friends

3166
02:05:24,950 --> 02:05:22,920
right going out and enjoying nature all

3167
02:05:28,370 --> 02:05:24,960
of those things are valuable to me but

3168
02:05:30,649 --> 02:05:28,380
the one the one basic imperative that I

3169
02:05:34,430 --> 02:05:30,659
feel is to integrate with reality

3170
02:05:36,470 --> 02:05:34,440
perfectly cope reality reinforce itself

3171
02:05:38,510 --> 02:05:36,480
right because that's all there is there

3172
02:05:40,490 --> 02:05:38,520
is nothing outside of that you try to

3173
02:05:43,370 --> 02:05:40,500
extricate yourself from reality like the

3174
02:05:45,770 --> 02:05:43,380
Buddhists are trying to do and you end

3175
02:05:47,810 --> 02:05:45,780
up in Nirvana and you're nothing your

3176
02:05:49,550 --> 02:05:47,820
identity has at that point fused without

3177
02:05:51,770 --> 02:05:49,560
of the entire universe and you no longer

3178
02:05:53,510 --> 02:05:51,780
have an individual identity at all your

3179
02:05:55,729 --> 02:05:53,520
identity is a self-distributed thing

3180
02:05:57,950 --> 02:05:55,739
that covers everything and you have lost

3181
02:05:59,510 --> 02:05:57,960
your identity as you know okay you're

3182
02:06:01,310 --> 02:05:59,520
here and you feel your individual

3183
02:06:05,450 --> 02:06:01,320
identity and that's very very important

3184
02:06:08,030 --> 02:06:05,460
okay if your job your job the the job of

3185
02:06:11,270 --> 02:06:08,040
your identity is not only to enjoy life

3186
02:06:13,609 --> 02:06:11,280
as you were put here to do but also to

3187
02:06:14,990 --> 02:06:13,619
help life and to help reality reinforce

3188
02:06:19,609 --> 02:06:15,000
itself

3189
02:06:24,770 --> 02:06:22,310
Bernardo

3190
02:06:28,069 --> 02:06:24,780
uh the answer I will give you is not the

3191
02:06:31,430 --> 02:06:28,079
answer I would like to give you I would

3192
02:06:34,010 --> 02:06:31,440
like to tell you I value love the most

3193
02:06:36,229 --> 02:06:34,020
relationships the most human decency and

3194
02:06:37,669 --> 02:06:36,239
justice

3195
02:06:40,850 --> 02:06:37,679
um

3196
02:06:43,750 --> 02:06:40,860
Nietzsche struggled with this question

3197
02:06:45,770 --> 02:06:43,760
and he answered power

3198
02:06:47,810 --> 02:06:45,780
is what

3199
02:06:50,569 --> 02:06:47,820
because he considered the most important

3200
02:06:53,270 --> 02:06:50,579
the wheel to power and contrast to

3201
02:06:54,050 --> 02:06:53,280
Freud's will to pleasure

3202
02:06:57,410 --> 02:06:54,060
um

3203
02:06:59,450 --> 02:06:57,420
but the truth is and you know it part of

3204
02:07:01,310 --> 02:06:59,460
maturing is accepting your own truths

3205
02:07:03,229 --> 02:07:01,320
and on the truth is about yourself even

3206
02:07:04,970 --> 02:07:03,239
when you don't like it

3207
02:07:06,890 --> 02:07:04,980
the truth is

3208
02:07:08,330 --> 02:07:06,900
that for me the most important thing is

3209
02:07:12,229 --> 02:07:08,340
truth

3210
02:07:14,510 --> 02:07:12,239
and that I would probably

3211
02:07:17,149 --> 02:07:14,520
surrender everything else

3212
02:07:18,229 --> 02:07:17,159
to stare the truth in the face whatever

3213
02:07:21,109 --> 02:07:18,239
the price

3214
02:07:23,209 --> 02:07:21,119
whatever it cost that for me is is is

3215
02:07:25,729 --> 02:07:23,219
the highest calling it's how I'm put

3216
02:07:29,450 --> 02:07:25,739
together it's not how I

3217
02:07:30,189 --> 02:07:29,460
wish I was put together

3218
02:07:33,709 --> 02:07:30,199
um

3219
02:07:36,770 --> 02:07:33,719
to to prioritize truth above all else is

3220
02:07:38,990 --> 02:07:36,780
not trivial yeah again Nietzsche he was

3221
02:07:40,729 --> 02:07:39,000
very explicit about that he said why do

3222
02:07:43,370 --> 02:07:40,739
we want to know the truth

3223
02:07:46,569 --> 02:07:43,380
what's the point he thought it was

3224
02:07:49,430 --> 02:07:46,579
ridiculous it was a knee-jerk reflex

3225
02:07:52,850 --> 02:07:49,440
that if we thought it through we would

3226
02:07:55,970 --> 02:07:52,860
abandon it's not about what is true

3227
02:07:59,810 --> 02:07:55,980
um and I I've meditated on that for

3228
02:08:03,050 --> 02:07:59,820
years I I went to the extreme of

3229
02:08:05,990 --> 02:08:03,060
visiting the places where nature had

3230
02:08:09,890 --> 02:08:06,000
those thoughts which thank goodness are

3231
02:08:13,310 --> 02:08:09,900
recorded we know where he was and I I

3232
02:08:15,470 --> 02:08:13,320
probably stood within a meter of where

3233
02:08:16,310 --> 02:08:15,480
he stood

3234
02:08:20,629 --> 02:08:16,320
um

3235
02:08:24,709 --> 02:08:20,639
but at the end of all that struggle

3236
02:08:26,870 --> 02:08:24,719
it's it's the truth that shines through

3237
02:08:31,510 --> 02:08:26,880
and the truth is my highest commitment

3238
02:08:36,410 --> 02:08:31,520
is the truth that's that's how I am I I

3239
02:08:38,709 --> 02:08:36,420
yeah I hate it in a sense but that's how

3240
02:08:41,089 --> 02:08:38,719
I am

3241
02:08:42,410 --> 02:08:41,099
thank you all so much for coming out

3242
02:08:48,709 --> 02:08:42,420
this was

3243
02:08:51,709 --> 02:08:48,719
well enlightening in many ways okay I

3244
02:08:55,790 --> 02:08:51,719
would just once again repeat after that

3245
02:08:58,069 --> 02:08:55,800
after that uh the conspiring comment by

3246
02:08:59,810 --> 02:08:58,079
Bernardo the truth and reality are

3247
02:09:02,870 --> 02:08:59,820
basically two ways of looking at the

3248
02:09:05,089 --> 02:09:02,880
same thing when you say that's real or

3249
02:09:06,229 --> 02:09:05,099
something is real you are saying that it

3250
02:09:08,089 --> 02:09:06,239
is true

3251
02:09:10,729 --> 02:09:08,099
okay and when you say that something is

3252
02:09:12,589 --> 02:09:10,739
true you're saying that it's real so in

3253
02:09:14,990 --> 02:09:12,599
dedicating yourself to truth you also

3254
02:09:17,930 --> 02:09:15,000
dedicate yourself to reality and both of

3255
02:09:20,629 --> 02:09:17,940
our comments both what what both of us

3256
02:09:21,890 --> 02:09:20,639
said combined in this one

3257
02:09:24,169 --> 02:09:21,900
interest

3258
02:09:26,689 --> 02:09:24,179
that's one real truth

3259
02:09:29,810 --> 02:09:26,699
the same thing

3260
02:09:29,820 --> 02:09:33,050
I hope you had fun

3261
02:09:36,830 --> 02:09:34,490
more than that

3262
02:09:37,910 --> 02:09:36,840
and thank you for being so open for

3263
02:09:41,209 --> 02:09:37,920
being so

3264
02:09:43,490 --> 02:09:41,219
truthful and and so all there

3265
02:09:46,010 --> 02:09:43,500
with the rest of us it's been very much

3266
02:09:49,310 --> 02:09:46,020
my my pleasure thank you so much I think

3267
02:09:53,870 --> 02:09:49,320
both thanks both of you yes YouTube

3268
02:09:56,089 --> 02:09:53,880
take care all right man bye bye

3269
02:09:57,649 --> 02:09:56,099
the podcast is now finished if you'd

3270
02:10:03,850 --> 02:09:57,659
like to support conversations like this

3271
02:10:08,569 --> 02:10:06,109
c-u-r-t-j-a-i-m-u-n-g-a-l that is Kurt J

3272
02:10:10,069 --> 02:10:08,579
Mongol it's support from the patrons and

3273
02:10:11,870 --> 02:10:10,079
from the sponsors that allow me to do

3274
02:10:13,790 --> 02:10:11,880
this full-time every dollar helps

3275
02:10:16,250 --> 02:10:13,800
tremendously thank you

3276
02:10:18,530 --> 02:10:16,260
and a special thank you to Jeannie